High Performance CV & Axles

[sacook]

I haven't really run on the High Performance CV & Axles I got from Pelican's (thanks dave), cause the engine is being rebuilt, but I do have a question.

After you install the adapters, using gaskests, and begin to install the new CV's to the adapters, there is no gasket; and the original gaskets don't fit cause the bolt pattern is different. The adapter and CV are very nicely machined and fit very well.

??? Without a gasket between them will it start throwing greese all over the place?

Anyone have experience with this units from Renegede?

Thanks

[Brad Roberts]

The last ones I used from Renegade (VW Bus Cv's and axles) had a small lip that the actual CV fit into. This kept it from slinging grease. I think you will be fine. I used several of their kits until I found out the early 911 stuff bolts in.

B

[sleepdoc]

Hi

When I bought a set of these from pelican I called renegade to ask about the need for gaskets. They were very helpful and straight forward. They said that the machined pieces fit close enough that they can go on without anything, but that for their own cars they had used some blue RTV.

I followed this recomendation on my installation.

best Mark

[914timo]

What kind of axles are those HP axles ?? Are they from some 911 model ??
I have measured VW Bus axles are a lot shorter than 914īs.

[Brad Roberts]

Timo,

Renegade Hybrids sells an adapter that bolts to the 914 output flange and the stub axle. These adapter give you the correct "distance" needed to utilize bus axles.

I bailed on this method years ago when I found out early 911 drive flanges/hubs/stub axles and wheel bearings bolt into a 914 control arm and gives me 5 lug with a 930 turbo CV joint (minus 2 bolts +2 pins) Since the 901 box was used for the 914, the output flanges slide right into the 914/901 differential. STOCK axles and CV's from early 911 have the correct length (off by 13mm or so) which will hurt nothing.

Once you figure out what these people are trying to sell you for a million dollars...and you learn what fits and what doesnt... building cars is MUCH easier.

B

[914timo]

Yes, you are 100% right. It is a lot easier to build a car if you know the right things and it is VERY interesting to find out these "right things". So, you prove it again, "knowledge is power".

But, are you Brad sure that some early 911 axles are only 13mm shorter than 914 axles ?? I have compared them once and I think I found out that they were a lot shorter, about 50mm or something like that. I know you are busy man, but could you sometimes measure how long those axles really are ?? Or could somebody else measure at least how long 914 axles are. Mine are under the car....

[Brad Roberts]

Timo,

I have found most people measure CV to CV and NOT axle end to axle end. How did you measure yours ?? A typical 911 SC axle and Cv joint is too short. The early large face 4 bolt 2 pin axles and Cv's are shorter but not by much.

I have already shut the lights off here in the shop or I would shoot a pic for you of the axles and CV's in my tube frame race car.

B

[914timo]

Some pics would be great, as always !!!

Well, you speak about pins and bolts, but the outer diameter of original 914 CV is 94 mm. Then there are VW Bus and 911 CVs which diameter is 100mm. They use the same axle diameter and groove pattern as 94mm CVs, but the length (L in the pic) is longer. Later 915 trannys have 108mm CVs and totally different groove pattern.



I would like the axles measured from end to end. I compared them so....

[Brad Roberts]

Timo,

The stub axle you have listed as late is actually early.

The only piece I dont see in your pics is the output flange for the tranny (early 911/901)


and I have to question your measuring.. one pic you show 100mm and another you show 108... for the same part ??

B

[Brad Roberts]

I think your trying too hard.

Forget the 914 axles and CV's. You have to use the complete early 911 axle assemblies. (CV to CV) It doesnt matter what the spline length is on the 914 axle.

Pics.. today..

B

[Will98D]

Sounds like Brad's done the work, so you can just use the 911 stuff.
If you are interested in a halfshaft from the design aspect of it, the most important measurement in the halfshaft you seem concerned with is the joint centerline to joint centerline distance. The joints used in these applications are called cross-groove joints ( "CV", or constant velocity, actually is a generic term that applies to many types of joints: cross-groove, tripot, Rzeppa and double-offset being the most commonly used). A cross groove joint will usually have a design centerline that is outboard of the center of the outer race - the part the bolts go through; you could roughly approximate it by taking the mid-stroke position between the axle being flush with the back (inboard side) of the outer race and the full-out position. Don't pull too hard or you could pull the joint apart. Once you have each of the joints in the mid-stroke position, then you can measure flange to flange to find out the correct 'installed' length of the halfshaft. In this way, even if one halfshaft had a shorter axle bar but joints with a longer stroke, they could have the same net effective length when installed; this is why just measuring the axle will not give you a definitive answer.

[914timo]

You are right Brad. The stub in the first pic is with 108mm flange, but I use the ones with 100mm flanges. It doesnīt make difference here.

The 108mm CVs are used in later cars compared to the 911s with 100mm CVs. The stub axles I have are early 108mm axles. The late 108mm CVs and stub axles are actuallu one part.

And you are right also Will. I think that is the correct way to determine the axle length if you can choce the length. But, I am not going to make the custom axles. I would like to know the difference between 914 and 911 axles in length. I know how much the optimum difference should be.

[Brad Roberts]

My tube car has pretty easy access to the axles (from above) let me see if I can get one of my grunts to pull one from the car tomorrow and we can measure it against a 914 axle.

I'm trying to find the EXACT years that I bought (thinking 68-73)

The other method for me to do a quick check.. is to slide the axle back and forth in the CV joints and "feel" the play. I then tried this on a stock 73 2.0 sitting here and felt no more play than what I felt on the tube car. Not science, but stub axles had the same depth a the 914 stubs... so.. the play should be more or less depending on axle length.

B

[John2kx]

I put the upgraded Renegade CV axles on my car about 1000 miles ago and did not experience any slinging of grease "until" bolts started to loosen. The instructions warned to check bolts after 50 miles of driving and this was performed. The ones I could check without any disassembly were tight after 50 miles but did experience some loose bolts after 150 miles or so. Keep in mind the outboard adaptor bolts (8) cannot be checked without removal of complete cv axle.

I used blue locktite on all bolt threads but feel my assembly technique caused bolts to loosen. The axles come fully assembled and I installed mine with stub alxes already installed in swing arm. There is no way to remove all contaminates from stub axle bolt threads while installed in car. Also, it is difficult to get cv axles in place without getting grease on bolt threads or threads of stub axle when installing with stub axle installed in swingarm.

I also spoke with Renegade about gaskets and Scott recommended RTV. The flanges are machined in a way to prevent grease from slinging but I'll use RTV just in case.

While my car is on jackstands for a 5 lug upgrade, I have redone the CV axles and assembly technique. I've fully assembled stub axle end with RTV and fresh locktite "after" cleaning all threads of contaminants and feel this is the key to troublefree setup (see attached pic). You will have to use one of those rubber strap wrench thingamados to hold cv adaptor to get enough torque on bolts.

Moral of story.........clean "all" your threads with high strength cleaner prior to assembly.

John

[Brad Roberts]

I love the feet shots...LOL

Yep.. BUS axles with the Renegade adapters.

B

[sacook]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by John2kx

Thanks John -- That's exactly what I have..couldn't get Renegede to even talk to me about the axles, very disapointing considering there cost...but I like them.

My motors out right now so I think I'll get some RTV and wait for that strap wrench TV ad to come on again. :-)

Thanks

[Brad Roberts]

Sacook,

personal question for you:

Do you run a pool and spa company in Missouri ??

I had a V8 914 customer in Missouri that I have lost touch with.

B

[John2kx]

Sacook,

Picked up my rubber strap wrench at Lowes. It was a two pack (different sizes) for $14

John

[sacook]

Originally posted by Brad Roberts
Sacook,

personal question for you:

Do you run a pool and spa company in Missouri ??

I had a V8 914 customer in Missouri that I have lost touch with.

B

HI Brad, No sorry I am not the one....but I would like to find some MO 914 owners and set up a meet. .

If anyone knows any please email there names.

stephencook2@mchsi.com

Thanks

[sacook]

Originally posted by John2kx
Sacook,

Picked up my rubber strap wrench at Lowes. It was a two pack (different sizes) for $14

John

Lowes is just up the street...thanks for the tip

SAC