Problem with krikit tol adjusting belts too tight

944burns · 05-17-2009, 01:59 PM

I'm in the process of doing a water pump, belt and roller job. I used the krikit tool and time after time I got the same reading, 40lbs on the timing belt and 27 on the countershaft belt. When I started the car, it was howling lots. I proceeded to loosened the countershaft belt several times till I reached approx 20 lbs( bottom of krikit) or less. Started the car and way better, but still a bit of howling when you bring the RPM up a bit. This tells me that my timing belt must be to tight too since the krikit seems to be off. Initially I did find that they seem to tight, but trusted the krikit. Now I'm wondering if its defective ??? It does take enough finger pressure to make it click, enough that my finger hurts after doing it 7-8 times. I did try the 90 twist method and I find it does take a lot to get to 90. What you guys think, and have any of you heard of a defective krikit that could be off that much ???

John_AZ · 05-17-2009, 04:09 PM

944burns,
The Krikit is not defective, it takes a lot of time to get used to it.

Here is the www.Arnnworx.com explanation:
http://www.arnnworx.com/krikit1.htm
OR
http://www.arnnworx.com/tensioningbelts.htm

If this is your first time at the belts, go very slow. When you think you have the cam belt correct, here is a simple test on post 6. Read my disclaimer, I am not responsible for failure. Check and recheck or take it to a shop.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/474654-timing-belt-post4666963.html?highlight=pully#post4666963

GL
John_AZ

944burns · 05-17-2009, 05:48 PM

Thanks John_AZ For the reply and the links, but I have read all of them already in the past few weeks trying to study the process. I must admit, i'm new at Porsches but I'm also a heavy equipment mechanic by trade and have been for 30 years and very coordinated with tools and I have tried and tried to get a different reading with this krikit tool and it seems to give very consistent readings, but wrong lbs.
I just went out and tried the wp two hand turning test and its a no go. There is no way I can turn that pump with 2 hands if my life depended on it and its set down at 30 lbs with the krikit.
Tuesday I will borrow a friend's krikit that he bought in Toronto 2 weeks ago to compare with mine. I think tomorow I may bring the tension down till I can turn the wp and see how it looks. AHHHH !!! I love my Porsche, lol .

944burns · 05-17-2009, 05:55 PM

Something else I was thinking of, My krikit tool has an edge on to one side to keep it strait lengthwise on the belts. Do they all have that ?? I can't really see in all of the pics I found.

John_AZ · 05-17-2009, 06:14 PM

For your 85.5 944...

The placement of the finger on the Krikit and how it sits on the belt is important. Look at how the finger is placed towards the rear "FLAT" of the Krikit--not towards the front black indicator.

The indicator side has a gap on the cam belt and is held FLAT" with your finger on the rear. There is very little room for your hand and arm in the gap between the belt and the fans. If you really get stuck. Take out the fans for more room. After every retension try, rotate the crank 4 complete turns. Retest.

You have taken off the WP guide rail and the cam idler pully. Notice how the "FLAT is on the belt and where your finger has to press.

If you do not keep the Krikit "FLAT" and press on the right spot your indicator will be off. BTW I use the Krikut for the balance belt and the best setting is 28#.

I have the spring tensioner to give me a close tension on the cam belt. The final test is the WP pully test. A new belt will need 500 or so miles to finish sitting in the grooves and be retensioned. Most say 1000 to 1500 miles but I feel nervous to wait that long. When I go back for the retension after 500 miles the WP to belt pressure is very loose on a new belt. After the first retension, I recheck yearly and change my belts every other year.

GL
John_AZ

944burns · 05-17-2009, 06:42 PM

Thanks Thanks John_AZ .
I read the above, and I still think there is something wrong with the tool. The only thing I do differently then the pics above , I usually put my index finger inside the rubber band to press down on the black part. This way I can retrieve the tool slowly to get a better up-close reading . I tried using my thumb and find it awkward to get the tool out from the belt area. I do have the fans out and have adequate room to work in that area. Does your krikit have that edge on to one side underneath ?

944burns · 05-17-2009, 06:49 PM

I think the cliker on my tool is to tight and I have to press down to hard on the belt to make it click, giving me a lower reading then the belt really is. Does this make any sense to You ???

John_AZ · 05-17-2009, 09:42 PM

The Krikit I have does not have the edge you refer to.

When you rotate the crank clockwise to get to TDC, have you been reversing the crank 10 degrees or 1.5 teeth on the cam shaft gear as required and then check the tension? (Not for cars with spring tensioner.)

GL
John_AZ

John_AZ · 05-18-2009, 05:13 AM

Recheck the cam and TDC timing marks. Make sure the cam gear is not moving due to a weak or backed out cam bolt in the front. The bolt does work loose. Do not retorque this bolt. It was designed to stretch and the new bolt from Pelican is only $3.50 and now has the 12 point head.

The belt being so tight sounds like it is almost "preloaded" on the engine between the cam and crank and cannot be relaxed to adjust a proper tension. Are you using a Contitech belt?
There has been discussion about other brands and the way they fit.
Example:
Flennor belts? look kinda cheap, any experience with them

GL
John_AZ

944burns · 05-18-2009, 07:33 AM

Yes I have been rotating the engine backward a few degrees to adjust the belt, and yes I have bought a Contitech belt kit from TheImportExperts in Washington. Belts are identical as the one I had on. I really wanted to make sure I got contitech.
I have not check the cam bolt. I didn't think anything of it, since I didn't have to take it off. One thing that I maybe should of replaced was the Counterchaft sprokets as they seam a little worn. No wear grooves in it, just very shiny and evenly worn.

John_AZ · 05-18-2009, 09:04 AM

OK, If you have rotated the crank backwards 1 and 1/2 teeth, Rotate it back a full 2 cam teeth and do the adjustment. This should loosen up the belt on the drivers side. Recheck after you rotate the engine clockwise 4 turns and stop at pure TDC. Check-now if it too loose just do a counterclockwise only 1 tooth on the cam. Play with the amount of teeth on the cam and see if you get a better feel on the belt.

GL
John_AZ

Slam · 05-19-2009, 11:57 AM

I'd suggest not slipping your thumb under the rubber band, perhaps. Also, have you checked your clearance on the balance belt idler? It can cause quite a racket if it's not set up right. When I replaced mine a couple of weeks ago I ran the engine with the cover off to have a look at what was going on and found that the right positioning of that idler roller made a big difference. When I use the krikit I take the average of 7 readings and shoot for 37 lbs on the cam belt.

944burns · 05-22-2009, 11:21 AM

Thanks guys !!
I got another krikit from a friend and his takes less pressure to make it click. I did a little test. On a good scale with a short stick. I press down on the scale till it clicks and record a reading. On mine, I got an average 10.5 pounds. On my friend's krikit, I got 8.5 pounds. I guess they are not all that accurate after all.
Having done all that I proceeded using the 8.5 pound krikit, and adjusted the t. belt backward 1.5 teeth at approx 37 lbs and at tdc gives me approx 41 lbs. I did this a few times after turning the engine a few turns clockwise. At those settings and doing the 90 degree twist method, It felt good to me , but low for the krikit setting. ???
After that I did the balance belt at aprox 28 psi and started the car . At idle it barely wines, but when bringing the rpm up,the wine was bad, (with no balance roller in place yet). In order to get most of the wine out, I had to bring it to approx 20psi on the krikit. It does seem loose, but not ready to fall off for sure. I have read they always seem to loose then normal. Using my thump or my index in or out of the rubber band didn't seem to make a whole lot of difference.
When I removed the old belts initially, they were a lot looser then with the new belt now.
I installed the bal roller to .5 mm from below bal shaft gear and a slight preload on the bal belt above. ( not sure how to make a measurement on 1mm preload).
I wish I had the proper 9201 tool, but I'm not willing to pay over $600 Canadian for it.
I figure a little to loose is better then a little to tight, since I plan to check it a gain in the fall. I don't really put a lot of miles on it. Its just a joy car and fun to work on (sometimes lol ) Let me know what u all think , Thanks

Bernie.

ScoobySteve · ScoobySteve's Garage

There's always the Arnworx tool as middle ground. Its build quality makes it look a lot more consistent than the Krikit.

sito944 · 05:53 AM

Hello I am from Spain present, and I have a porsche 944, I have to put timing belt and I have a big problem to tighten, here in Spain nobody knows Porsches 944 951 968 etc ... fix
Could help me to know how to tighten as the tensiometer and seen in the pictures works.
thanks a greeting.