Exhaust System Recommendations

Ron Egan · 01-21-2003, 07:08 PM

I have an '85 Carrera and am interested in upgrading my exhaust system. I have read the archives and not really found a consensus regarding the best set up for the 3.2.

I originally was interested in B&B headers/muffler but have heard that the system has resonance problems. I am looking for a little louder/deeper sound but nothing obnoxiously loud.

Does anybody have experience with Fabspeed ? Their Euro pre-muffler/stainless muffler look like a nice set up. For those of you who are subjected to emissions testing (I live in GA), is it possible to pass using the pre-muffler ?

Any feedback/comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ron

KTL · 01-21-2003, 07:48 PM

Ron,

It's been said that on a 3.2 Carrera motor the Euro pre-muffler with a sport muffler and chip upgrade is about as effective as the SSI header setup.

So, if you're not interested in pulling the heat exchangers, changing oil lines, and modifying your heating plumbing, the Euro pre-muffler with sport muffler is probably the way to go if a more agressive sound is mostly what interests you. Not to mention that you have a really good chance of sneaking the car past the visual inspection with the pre-muffler. Hang that cat. conv. heat shield back on there and i'll bet no one will suspect a thing.

The SSI's are certainly a nice product (none better it seems) and will definitely add some value to the car. But if you can accomplish almost the same thing with the pre-muffler and sport muffler, why not save a few bucks and go that route?

I swapped the B&B stuff for a pre-muffler, but have not yet decided on a sport muffler. I chose to go with Fabspeed's pre-muffler and it is quite nice. Their muffler looks great as well, but I just have a hard time paying the absurd amount of money that some companies charge for 911 mufflers anymore. I think i'll go the factory style route and see how a Dansk muffler holds up over time. It's been said that you get what you pay for when it comes to 911 mufflers, so we'll see how the $400 something (even that's silly IMO) for a Dansk lasts.

Just my 2 cents.............

01-21-2003, 11:36 PM

KTL

"It's been said that on a 3.2 Carrera motor the Euro pre-muffler with a sport muffler and chip upgrade is about as effective as the SSI header setup."

I believe this only counts for US & cat models. I don't think my euro non cat 231HP car would gain anything noticeable.

Ron

Do a search for "SSI" and "Backdated". That should bring up at least some of the many exhaust threads we've had on this subject.

Personally it's only a matter of time and money before I backdate the exhaust on my 1984 Euro Carrera 3,2. Already have my eyes on a Dansk system with a 2 in 1 out muffler.

dickster · 01-22-2003, 12:01 AM

mikkel,

nice choice on the muffler. i am toying with the idea of changing my twin for the same.

don't you already have ssi's?

i dynoed my setup, and you're not gaining much with ssi's, so if you already have the euro premuffler, you just need a sport muffler. save your $$$.

personally, i believe ssi's are a waste of money for 3.2's.

AirCooledExcellence · AirCooledExcellence's Garage

Hi Dickster!

What's up with your dual-out dansk? I can't beleive your thinking of swapping it with a single out!!

I've been considering a dual-out to replace my single out, don't suppose the SC & 3.2 mufflers are exchangable??

Cheers

dickster · 01-22-2003, 12:24 AM

hi tim!

i guess i'm getting old!!

no, i prefer the "understated". i think for me the twin just crosses the line in terms of noise.

the "look" from the side isn't the best either..........

i might trade for a single 84 tip stainless dansk unit - whats yours?...

AirCooledExcellence · AirCooledExcellence's Garage

Rich,

I'm not too sure what it is actually. It's good quality stainless steel with a single 75mm tip. I spoke to the firm that supplied it to the PO of my car, they said it would have been either a dansk or leistrex (I dunno how to spell it!)

Cheers

dickster · 01-22-2003, 03:21 AM

tim,

close but no cigar

BlkBird · 01-22-2003, 03:30 AM

Ron,

Too bad you didn't make it out for coffee at Roocks last Saturday. With 20 Pelicans you could have "listened" for yourself!

As to FABSPEED, I know of more than one shop that will not deal with them. I cannot speak to their product, but apparently their business practices are close to unethical. Ask Steve at Rennlist.

Whereas everyone says the folks at GHL are good to work with. I don't know if their product is too loud for your application, but they sure make a nice muffler.

RSW · 01-22-2003, 03:31 AM

I changed my standard for a Dansk 84mm Stainless steel back box (muffler). The sound obviously changed - it made it deeper.

I then went and intalled a Pre-pipe in place of my pre-sliencer and to be fair I'm not that impressed with the combination. It hasn't made the tick over any louder but if I rev it I can not hear the popping and banging that the silencer previously removed.
It sounds like a rally car at times which I'm not keen on.

By the way - what are SSI's? I've seen the initials but never worked it out? Stainless steel somethings I figured???

Richard

BER · BER's Garage

Richard,

Here's the link to SSI's web site. Tells you everything you wanted to know.

http://www.stainlesssystemsinc.com/

Regards, Bruce

01-22-2003, 05:50 AM

Dickster

I still have the stock 19 years old heat echangers on my car. They aren't in awful condition, but not good either so I have decided to replace them along with mufflers etc.

I think the backdated setup is much simpler and more "direct" in its structure. The stock system looks overcomplicated in my opinion. So now that I'm going to replace everything anyway why not go with the backdated setup (price is almost the same here)? Also after driving 2 Carrera 3,2s with backdated exhausts I'm convinced. They both felt more eager than my car.

Why have you decided to loose the 2 out muffler? Do you have resonance? Or is it simply a bit too loud?

chuckr · 01-22-2003, 05:53 AM

The GHL header/muffler/cat by-pass system is an excellent choice for what you are looking for.

Wil Ferch · 01-22-2003, 06:02 AM

Guys:
I run the Euro-premuffler / chip / dual-out main muffler combo and like it. Yes, it comes close to SSI type hp numbers without the hassle of moving oil lines and also allows the cat to be replaced if necessary. Yep..focus is on US spec cars for this set up. Being the cheap b*stard that I am, I have the factory OEM main muffler modded with a right side factory outlet...no need for a compleltely new muffler, and you know what kind of material and build quality you have. hHnt...if you drill the main body of the muffler on the right side, try a smaller diameter hole first ( as small as 1/2"), surrounded by the 2.5" outlet. The pressure short-circuits on that side of the muffler and if you put in a 2.5" hole from the start, you'll have a LOT of noise/flow on that side. You can always progressively drill out larger than 1/2" hole on the right side, as desired/ needed.
---Wil Ferch

Eric Mckenna · 01-22-2003, 06:15 AM

GHL, IS A GEAT SET UP.. NICE AND THROATY MAKES A 911 SOUND LIKE THE OLD RACE CARS..
VERY NICE..

I HAVE THE 2 IN / 2 OUT GHLON MY SC AND IT'S VERY CHOICE

ERIC

KennyG · 01-22-2003, 06:49 AM

I went through similar thoughts with my 88 and was almost ready to drop a lot of $ on an exhaust system. But I was offered an almost new Bursch single out for $50 and couldn't resist. The single out suited me because I don't want to alter the car in any way that can't be simply swapped with the OE.
I know that this muffler is not amongst the most popular here, but at $50, how could I go wrong? This muffler installed with a 3.5" tip sounded much better, but still wasn't quite enough. I then added a cat by-pass pipe at about $120 and Voila! The car now sounds awesome and it cost me less than $200. BTW, I also have a SteveW chip and open cone filter.
As far as smog goes, They don't do a visual here in WA, also I am told that it would pass as is, however if it didn't, then putting the cat on temporarily is easy enough.
I don't know about other states, but here in WA you don't actually have to "pass" the test. Sending in the "failed" results still gets you your tabs.

dickster · 01-22-2003, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Why have you decided to loose the 2 out muffler? Do you have resonance? Or is it simply a bit too loud?

mikkel,

well, i'm considering it. i think the 84mm single would have been better for me.

it doesn't resonate as such, but it sounds "tinny" - could be the stainless construction.

its not obnoxiously loud, but people know when you are coming or going!

i set off my first car alarm recently.....

Mike Feinstein · Mike Feinstein's Garage

Hi Ron,

I just installed a Fabspeed Euro-premuffler and their single-in dual-out muffler is on order. I ordered everything from Windward and the prices were far lower than those listed on Fabspeed's website (Pelican doesn't carry Fabspeed). The Windward guys are pretty good to deal with....if Fabspeed is a PITA, it's Windward's problem, not mine. The quality and engineering in Fabspeed's products simply cannot be beat. The premuff looks like a piece of jewelry and installation was a breeze.

I'm expecting the muffler in early February...will post impressions at that time. FYI, I am in Atlanta also and plan to swap the premuff for my cat for emissions testing once each year. Use new stainless bolts and copper nuts with plenty of copper anti-seize and it will be a 15 minute job to do the swap. Also, without a cat in GA, you will probably not pass emissions...or so I am told by the emissions guy.

If you come to the DE this weekend at Road Atlanta (driving or watching), I'm in car #94. Be happy to chat about this stuff all day long (between track sessions...of course).

FlaCarrera · 01-22-2003, 07:24 AM

I drive with Fab's Euro pre-muffler and Dansk single in/dual out with 80mm tips. Right side of rear valance had a neat new cut-out done matching the left. Chip reburned locally to allow for pre-muffler. Slighty louder but with wondeful deep throaty growl. Makes just starting the car fun. Noticeable stronger feel of torque througout the RPM range. That's my vote.
Ted in So Fla
86 Carrera Targa Blk/Blk

Wil Ferch · 01-22-2003, 08:24 AM

Mike Feinstein and others ( re: bolting hardware)...
Hint..
stock is 8mm x 40 mm carbon steel bolts. I used nearly identical sized 316 stainless bolts and Silicon/Bronze nuts...size 5/16x18 ( 1.5" long under head)...hard to find silicon/bronze in metric. Bonus...the hex head is 1/2" size which is a near perfect match for a 13 mm wrench...no need to worry about metric/US match-up on tools !!
Stainless bolts with Si/Br nuts are just the thing and better than anti-seize or softer copper nuts...
---Wil Ferch

--Wil Ferch