Judder in 1st when warm

nige944 · 02:32 PM

Ok, due to a tanker turning over around Boston last night I spent a lot time this morning in 1st gear crawling through the nightmare traffic and I noticed once the car was warm, that engaging the clutch in 1st gear under 2000rpm produced a rather expensive feeling judder/rattling noise which shook the whole car.

The noise seemed to come from the rear of the car, only seemed to happen when starting off using less than 2-2.5k rpm and didnt happen in 2nd.

No idea when the clutch was last replaced.

Does anyone have any pointers as to where I should be looking?

Torque Tube? Clutch? Tranny?

ds475 · 09-10-2003, 06:41 PM

yea... it think that is the "944 shuder" but i'm not sure, i've read about the "944 shudder" but i don't know if it is that (because that happens to me) or if thats something else...

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

Clutch disc, flywheel and pressure plate.

Next time you replace the clutch you will have to resurface the flywheel and replace the guide cone for the throw out bearing.

nige944 · 09-11-2003, 06:23 AM

Thanks SoCal. Hopefully it will last until next spring.

FLA944 · 09-11-2003, 09:01 AM

Remove your starter and check for rubber chunks. If you see any replace the clutch now,please don't wait or you will get stuck usually at the worst place and time.

Rick

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

FLA944 has a point. If there is evidence of disintegration you really want to fix it now. Rubber chunks and even a fine layer of shavings inside the bell housing indicates trouble.

By the way you are not the only one with a beat up early 944 for a daily driver.

nige944 · 10-18-2003, 12:12 PM

Doesnt appear to be the clutch in this case, as the other night it juddered when setting off from the lights and as i stomped on the gas it shot forwards (thanks FR :-)), then faltered and went clank, which wasn't good as i was in the middle of 4 lanes of rush hour traffic, i put the clutch in and the clanking stopped. I let the clutch out and the clanking started.. !@#$# #$#@$ @$@# @#$#@$ @#$#@$ !@$#@

After some experimentation i found i could drive at about 20 mph and with the cd player on full blast I didnt feel so embarrased as i could barely hear the noise. (rythmic metallic clanking noise from the rear).

Anyway, so after sulking for two weeks, i decided to jack up the rear wheels and have a listen. And yes, it was still doing it, like i expected anything different...

My problem now is that i'm not sure what to do, do i just go ahead and replace the tranny, or try and have it repaired? the noise is definatly coming from the rear of the tranny just after the rear wheels and there is some vibration in that area when its running in gear.

Any opinions?

nige944 · 10-18-2003, 04:27 PM

no, I'll have a look tomorrow.

nige944 · 05-30-2004, 10:04 PM

So ahem 8 months later after all the snow has gone.. I finally get around to dropping the transmission, which was a relatively painless process.

I removed the differential cover to discover a few large teeth lying loose, and these aren't the kind of teeth you can put under your pillow to get money. I'm not entirely sure what i'm looking at so could someone please identify item 5 in the following picture.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/944/944_parts/944_83-85/Pic44.jpg

I'm guessing Ring and pinion, but i'm not sure.

Thanks.

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

Ring and pinion. Search for a used transmission. Might even look for a 944 that has had an engine fire or the timing belt has broken.

Eli K · 05-30-2004, 11:20 PM

May want to keep your eye on ebay auctions...some times they got parts cars going pretty cheap....

adida(r 944) · 05-31-2004, 02:22 AM

if you got money burning a hole in your pocket you can always get your tranny rebuilt cost me a total of $1300 for a rebuild and anouther $250 for shipping. had to send mine off (ITS Transmission Service raleigh, CA) cuase the local transmission shop mechanic scratched his head and had a puzzeld look on his face when i said "PORSCHE", then looked it up in his Estimated TIME VS MONEY book and quoted me $2,500 to rebuild it WITHOUT WARRENTY. what a cracker.

good luck on getting your P-car up and going

nige944 · 05-31-2004, 10:41 AM

So i take it your not recomending i try to change the ring and pinion myself? Just out of interest does anyone know what is involved?

adida(r 944) · 05-31-2004, 12:14 PM

didnt say you couldnt do it yourself, just saying if you had some extra cash laying around

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by nige944
So i take it your not recomending i try to change the ring and pinion myself? Just out of interest does anyone know what is involved?

Need to have the proper hydraulic press and jigs to set the trans back up. Think you might beable to find these used for around 4 or 5 thousand dollars.

This isn't a chevy three speed! (I can do those in my sleep)

bazar01 · bazar01's Garage

I changed the ring and pinion bearings on mine early this year due to a rear end whine. Also changed 1st/2nd and 5th gear synchros while it was open. I used the same shims since bearings are manufacturedwith very close tolerances and did not affect the ring and pinion set up (S1, S2, S3 & S4 shim specs).
If you are changing the ring and pinion, it will be a different story. Since they come in matched set, you have to set it up right using the special VW set up tool not to mention the various special bearing pullers and a hydarulic press for pressing out the gears on the pinion shaft.
You will be better off looking for a used tranny.
If you are not comfy on a used one, have it rebuilt then.
The ring and pinion replacement is not for a diy home mechanic.
Hope this helps. Thanks.

pokey · 05-31-2004, 07:19 PM

Can a N/a be rebuilt with 951 R&P? Is the ratio the same?

Britwrench · 05-31-2004, 07:29 PM

Nope, you need another 944 r&p, the 951 is the wrong ratio for NA cars. it's not worth trying to rebuild broken r&p trans as used ones are avialable and relatively cheap. A new r&p set for the later (85/2 on) trans, 016 409 143BF is around $575.00 new, so with that, bearings, synchros, probably a diff carrier and labour could easily be $2k.

pokey · 06-01-2004, 12:26 AM

Just out of curiosity (as my car is not even on the road yet), is anyone manufacturing stronger R/P for N/A. Also, what LSD would you recommend for a track oriented street car. My plans call for approx. 250 - 300 hp (I know it will be expessive, but that is my goal for this toy).