3.2 Carrera vs. 997

[BMWDavid]

I've had my '89 3.2 Coupe for just about two years now. No problems and I've put something like 7,500 miles on it. It's my first Porsche and I throughly enjoy driving it.

Now that 997's are dropping into the mid $50's I've been giving some thought to selling my 3.2 and my '06 GTI and moving into a '95-'96 997.

Just wanted to get some comments from others that may have gone to a 997 or even from a 997 to a 3.2.

David

[BMWDavid]

Got that wrong...I mean '05-'06 997's.

David

[JasonF]

I sold my '95 C4 to purchase a 2005 base Carrera. Although I initially liked the 997, it soon became apparent that the build quality was pretty bad (loose trim, squeals and squeaks the dealer could never fully rectify). Soon enough I was experiencing multiple mechanical problems (the ac compressor was replaced 2x) along with a check engine light that kept getting triggered and perplexed my local dealer. The final insult was when the car left me stranded when I was literally rushing to the hospital to see my father shortly before he passed away. I got rid of the hunk of junk and went back to air-cooled bliss. My current 993 has almost 100k miles on the clock and hasn't missed a beat.

The water-cooled 911's are depreciating like stones because:

1. they were produced in great quantities,
2. build quality is spotty; and
3. good luck with repair costs when the warranty is over.

I know there are many happy 996 and 997 owners who appreciate the comfort and quickness of the newer cars...I did as well for about 3 weeks of initial ownership. I'm not trashing those who own water-cooled 911's...it's just that my personal experience with a 997 was awful.

[jurhip]

Why rush into it. As JasonF stated, these are made in great quantities. They just released the new PDK model, so expect even more 997s to hit the used car market. Plus, you can always get a 997 in good condition as they are new.

FWIW, the first years of any model are usually prone to reliability problems. Even the older 911s were this way. Look at the g50 issues.

[Nine, Frau!]

What are the issues with the G50 transaxle? Except for that weird rattle inside they seem awesome and shift great.

[Paul K]

Go drive a 993. All the modern benefits without the problems associated with the 996/997.

I'm planning to upgrade from an '89 3.2 to a 993 C4 myself!

Cheers,

Paul.

[500_19B]

There have always been, and will be, lemons. On the whole, the 997 seems to be very well built and solid (exceptions duly noted). Porsche is now regularly at the top of the JD Power 90 day initial quality study, but more telling for this discussion is that the 911 of recent years has been at the top of the JD Power 3-year vehicle dependablity study. People in my local PCA region that I have talked to are very positive about their experiences with the 997.

It seems Porsche has invested significantly in quality over the past decade and a steady improvement can be seen through the 996 series into the 997.

All that said, it is a different experience that the 3.2 air cooled cars and the advice to take it slow is good. As suggested, you may want to sample other alternatives such as the 993 cars to see what suits you best.

In my view, any of these cars have great potential (again, accepting that there are samples of each which may have issues).

[Dixie]

Do you want to know what really rocks? The new '09 Carerra with the DSG (or whatever Porsche calls it) gear box. The 997 with the DSG (Dual sequential gearbox) has to be the best-bang-for-buck that Porsche has to offer. It has the same HP as last years 'S', and a new lightning fast gear box that is quick and slick. Sure, If you're after pure braggin' rights at the golf club, buy the twin-turbo. But If you're after braggin' rights at the track, then buy the plain Carerra with the DSG. All you need is to pony up the money.


The net: A new Porsche will run rings around your old 3.2. Will it provide the same thrill? That's up to you....

[ischmitz]

Drive both and form your own opinion. There are very different in character and you will notice right away. In my book they have nothing in comon other than the name. But both are fun to drive for different reasons. It all comes down to what you are looking for.

Ingo

[jbripps]

I had an '85 Targa for 7 years....I LOVED it. Was a fantastic ride, but I did put quite a bit of money into it. I loved the classic feel, and the look of the targa with the tail. It sounded gorgeous with the Fabspeed set up. I put 9's on the back, fresh from the factory and moved the 7's up front. Just a knockout of a car.

BUT....the A/C was basically non existent, and little things always seemed to need fixin here and there. Mechanically, the car was indeed bulletproof....just astonishing for a car that age with frequent driving. I wanted a P car as a DD.

May of '07, I picked up an '02 C4S. Talk about ridiculous. I've put over 20K on the clock since I've had it and have had basically ZERO issues. Car is now approaching 60K miles. There was one small issue that the CPO covered, but would have been a 200 repair. I drive it EVERY day, and thru the winter as well. After about 6 months or so, I found myself not driving the targa. Rather than let it sit, I sold it to someone here. Simply didn't have the time for it at this stage in my life. Also, my kids are younger, and I felt more comfortable with them tagging along with rear shoulder restraints and more safety measures in the newer bodies.

If the economy weren't so poor, I may have held onto it, but I guess I can always get another one down the road if my wallet allows for the same. Right now, it doesn't. I NEVER thought I'd drive the newer one in the winter, but it's incredible in the snow with Blizzaks....better than our Forester was.

So....if you are looking for fantastic A/C, super comfortable cabin, and less interior noise, or simply a daily driver....the newer the better. The performance of a 3.2 and a 993 are not even comparable to a 996 and higher. They are in different leagues. I couldn't believe how slow my targa felt after 2 months of not driving it....was kinda sad. And I had a VERY fast targa that was chipped. The overall performance of the newer cars leaves their older models way far in the dust...but that's what progression and engineering does for every maker.

For the prices, you can't beat it. Perhaps the build quality is a bit less, but only a tad less....but for the price, it's a no brainer. Some people are selling '99's for under 20K....insanity. Oh and one more thing....you NEVER have to worry about those rising temps when it hits 100 degrees, and you are stuck in traffic....that's such a drag.

J

[porschenut]

I have both an '86 Carrera (5 years) and an '07 Carrera S (from new) and I have nothing but HIGH praise for the 997 S. WOW. Flawless car, no problems whatsoever and not a single squeak. I would buy it again in a heartbeat.

I couldn't bear to part with the '86 though, so I kept it. Yes, they are different experiences but equally exciting, and respectfully disagree with the poster above who thinks they have nothing in common. The 997 is unmistakeably a 911 and boy does it look and sound great!

[dimeified]

It comes down to this...
If you want to drive 45mph and feel like your doing 80mph, get an early 911.
If you want to drive 80mph and feel like your doing 45mph, get a 997.
My 84 carrera is the first car i've ever driven that i actually wrestle with on my daily commute. It seriously takes energy to drive these cars, and they will suck it out of you, it is exhilerating. Every morning that I park the car at work, I leave it feeling like i just left a rock concert. This is not an exageration, and no i dont drive like a maniac. You feel the grip of the front tires literally in the palm of your hands, and you feel the rear tire patches in your butt and feet on the pedals.

My father said it best, "this feels like a super fast go kart."

[ChkbookMechanic]

I was actually looking at Cayman Ss when I decided to look at the old air-cooled 911s. Granted, the Cayman S isn't a 911, but build quality-wise I'm sure it has to be up to par with the new 997. It was a rock solid car from what I could tell and ridiculously fast. However, when I hopped in the air-cooled 911 and drove it I fell in love with it. I enjoy the fact it is fairly electronics free, is easy to work on and is still decently quick. Of course, this isn't my daily driver, so what I was looking for is probably much different than you. The best thing is to just go drive a few 997s and see what you think of them.

[ischmitz]

Talking about perception. My Targa is pushing probably close to 300HP with all modifications at a curb weight of 2400 lb. The C4 is pushing the same power at closer to 3000 lb. And I don't really know which car is faster. What the earlier car has in P/W ratio advantage is compensated by the much smother torque curve, better suspension etc. of the later car. And it really doesn't matter.

The Targa requires your full attention while you can cruise in the C4. Going 60 mph in the Targa feels like racing and going 60 mph in the C4 feels like being stuck in traffic. I did drive a C4 on the German Autobahn at its max. speed and boy what a fantastic car. It really comes to live north of the 120 mph mark. Too bad we can't do this here......

[aigel]

You may want to try a different board (H2O cooled) for that question. Definitely test drive a few 993s to compare. You may find yourself at home better coming from the 3.2.There is a serious disconnect between the 993 and the later cars. This is both in technology but also in build quality (993s are still hand built). I would also keep in mind serviceability. This is important for DIY but also for finding decent independent shops. You also should consider depreciation. The 993 is on a very slow curve of depreciation currently. The 997 will continue to fall rapidly until it reaches 993 territory.

I have autocrossed a 95 997 and did not enjoy it as much as I would have expected. The car was very big, had a japanese interior feel and even with stability control off, it felt castrated. I did not feel at home in it. Going from the SC to the 993 was a whole different story: Same seats, same roof, same windshield and glass, same door pockets, seating position and same gauge lay out. 'Nuf said!

George

[jpahemi]

It comes down to this...
If you want to drive 45mph and feel like your doing 80mph, get an early 911.
If you want to drive 80mph and feel like your doing 45mph, get a 997.

Maybe your car as a cab gave that effect; my 84 Coupe @ 90 feels like 50. The car is extremely stable, never letting on that you're traveling 30-40mph over the highway limit.
One thing that folks seem to forget with the H2O intro is that your standard 996-997 engine is a totally different animal when compared to the GT series engines. It's the first time Porsche (for the 911 line) designed a street motor. Something to think about. If you want the real 911 evolution, you need to spend the $'s for the GT engines.

jp

[Macroni]

Try a 996 GT3 / Twin Turbo on also.

[RWebb]

what jp said

restated:

the 911 is an anachronism

do you want that?

or a modern car?

if so, how modern? -- call the 993 half-way...

personally, i go for the anachronism -- with it's 915 trans. (would like an even earlier 911 type); it's primitive McPherson strut F susp. & semi-trailing arm R. susp.; the outdated 2 valve air cooled motor, etc. ....


naturally, we all want a fleet of 911s, Fcars, jeeps, lexi, and some EVs

[Palum6o]

I think this is a great question. I've also thought about this but I've come to the conclusion: My 86 is a keeper. Anything new these days will be a pain to own once the warranty runs out. My daily driver is the MB and its a blast to drive to work (I do lots of highway miles at times), but the 'old' 911 is my weekend retreat. Its really irreplaceable - when cruising in it, hearing that sound and feeling the rawness to it, that smell - its great. I'll be driving a newer Porsche probably next after the benz, but I'm certainly not trading the 86 for it. I'm also keeping an eye on the 05's to current. Once they hit the low to mid $40s, with an extended warranty, they will be a best bang for the buck IMO.

[porschenut]

Originally Posted by Palumbo

Anything new these days will be a pain to own once the warranty runs out.

I don't understand your logic here. The cars being produced today are more reliable and more maintenance-free than any time in history. And, most of us are spending far more to maintain our '80's 911s than you would pay to maintain just about ANY 4-year old car. We may love our older cars but the math simply doesn't agree.