Anyone using the HANS device?

Bailey · Bailey's Garage

I know we should always think about safety first, but honestly, who here uses a HANS device for club racing or DEs? I plan on maybe 8-12 DE days this season with hopefully some open lapping days as well. Am I (are we) silly not to use the HANS?

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Quote:

Am I (are we) silly not to use the HANS (or similar head and neck protection)?

Yes.

Jack Olsen · 03-25-2004, 06:24 PM

No one will look at you sideways for wearing a Hans, anymore.

However, you might want to look at the alternatives. The Hans requires specific space between belts, and depends on user adjustment to work properly. The Isaac doesn't, and also provides some lateral protection (which is good, since most collisions aren't head-on).

www.isaacdirect.com

Jim Richards · 03-25-2004, 06:32 PM

Jack, the Isaac looks interesting, but I think for PCA DE, it's not too practical. We're required to have the same protection for driver & instructor. Maybe my interpretation is wrong, glad to hear comments.
Anyway, how many instructors have or will put the Isaac mounts on their helmets?

Still, it does look pretty slick.

jim911 · 03-25-2004, 06:35 PM

Yes I and many of the folks in the Chicago PCA use the hans. Would not do anything on a track without it. The newest versions are light weight, come in various sizes, quick release fittings and just may keep you out of a wheelchair!

ErVikingo · 03-25-2004, 06:38 PM

Anyone using the GForce system? Any feedback?

jim911 · 03-25-2004, 06:41 PM

Yes I and many of the folks in the Chicago PCA use the hans. Would not do anything on a track without it. The newest versions are light weight, come in various sizes, quick release fittings and just may keep you out of a wheelchair!

Jack Olsen · 03-25-2004, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Richards
We're required to have the same protection for driver & instructor. Maybe my interpretation is wrong, glad to hear comments.

I've never heard of this rule being applied to head and neck restraints. Has anyone else?

jim911 · 03-25-2004, 08:11 PM

No one requires good common sense.

TimT · 03-25-2004, 08:24 PM

Its a mantra SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY

Im not sure if you need a HANS device as a green group driver and I would never tell you you didnt need one.

its a dilema that need some investigation.

MarkP · 03-25-2004, 08:52 PM

I bought a Hans last month.

A friend recently sustained a serious and permantly debilitating injury in a pretty low speed racing accident, nuf said.

Jim Richards · 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JackOlsen
I've never heard of this rule being applied to head and neck restraints. Has anyone else?

Just curious. One of our PCA tech requirements is "SEAT BELTS/HARNESSES – Three point harnesses as a minimum. No 4-point harnesses allowed. Original factory installation or securely mounted metal-to-metal for both driver and passenger (equal restraints required)."

I brought this up since the Isaac ties into the harness. Maybe it's a stretch.

I think this is smart stuff to have onboard. Great topic.

jim911 · 03-26-2004, 05:23 AM

Sometimes we can only think about what makes our car loud, fast, look cool. Safety equipment, R tires, suspension changes are the priority order I have been tought to use. Once I'm capable of out driving the cars capability I can go from there. In most cases that will never happen.

jim911 · 03-26-2004, 05:30 AM

Sometimes we can only think about what makes our car loud, fast, look cool. Safety equipment, R tires, suspension changes are the priority order I have been tought to use. Once I'm capable of out driving the cars capability I can go from there. In most cases that will never happen.

304065 · 03-26-2004, 11:33 AM

All right, where do you buy one? I'm sold: it was an article I read in Car & Driver that really put me over the edge.

gbaker · 03-26-2004, 12:43 PM

(Hi Jack. How's it going?)

Interesting. Would the rules require that the driver and instructor use identical head and neck restraints, or just the "same protection?" One would think the latter as identical helmets are not required, for example.

This situation is similar to some racing schools that use the Isaac system as a standard. It just stays in the school cars and the school provides the helmets. The inventory is one per car rather than one per driver/instructor, as there is no fit issue.

You guys are in a completely different boat. Many racing sanctioning bodies, e.g. SCCA Pro Racing, VARA, INEX, etc., are going with a policy requiring the use of any H&N restraint that has been formally tested. This might not be a bad direction for PCA to go.

Just my $0.02

(Didn't mean to butt in. We noticed some server traffic coming from this thread.)

jim911 · 03-26-2004, 04:40 PM

I purchased from Northstar motorsports, call Kevin at 8oo-356-2080. Send your helmet and kevin will take care of everything. Different models depending on type of car you drive. For Porsche it's no. 20. There is a normal model made of fiberglass or the prefered one in carbom fiber, which is much lighter. Believe me it's painless to be safe! You can also order direct from Hans, however I prefered them to install the mountings to my helmet.

logician · 08:38 AM

I'll post another vote for using a HANS. I bought one last year after seeing a fatailty caused by a basal neck injury at one of the club races. I chose HANS because they had authorative crash test data and because it's mandated by F1. It is possible that the other systems work well too, but without good testing, how would you know?

Some people have had difficulty with 3" belts slipping off their HANS. I have not encountered that problem. I am using a Recaro SPG seat which I've been told helps in that respect. The belt holes are apparently closer together in the SPG than other seats. You may also need to use tube collars on the harness bar to keep the belts close together at their mounting points.

Protection for side impact is problematic with all the tethered head restraint systems. Seats with elephant ears seem like they could be helpful. But you have to be careful with those because the ears can block egress through the window should you need to get out without opening the door. BTW, you may find that you have to take your HANS off in order to climb out the window. Mine catches on the roll cage.

I've noticed this year that some of the Speedvision cars have interior head restraint nets in the cars. These nets are triangular and are at head level. I'm thinking these nets are probably a good solution for side impact. Look for those next time you watch one of those races.

-Juan

gbaker · 03-29-2004, 01:59 PM

You are not alone...

"Jeff had a scary moment when his car caught fire in Puerto Rico and he had trouble getting out of the car.

"...so when I was getting out of the car a corner of my HANS device snagged on the net. The only thing that released me was that the net melted and broke."

From here: http://www.theracesite.com/index.cfm?pagetype=2&form_article=6482

Side netting helps.

logician · 03-29-2004, 03:21 PM

I saw that race with Altenberg and noted that he snagged on something while trying to get out.

One thing I've discovered in researching safety devices is that there are a lot of interactions that are non-obvious. Examples:

1) neck collars are presumably helpful. However, they add weight to your head and so can actually increase the possibility of neck injury.

2) Alternberg's experience with the net snagging is another. The net should really be installed to fall down out of the way.

3) Does your roll cage have a front cross piece that runs below the steering column and near your knees? You might be concerned about injury to your knees, even if that cross piece is padded.

4) Do you have a quick release steering wheel and drive your car on the street? The standard Mono adaptor is designed to crush on impact, presumably by your head. Does your quick release setup retain this crush piece?

5) NASCAR side bars seem like a good idea. But actually the disadvantage is that they reduce door crush zone, thus increasing the g forces in a side impact -- not good!

I think we benefit greatly from the crash testing done on the production cars that most of us race. There's a lot of data collected and incremental provements over the years. You might think twice about replacing structural elements like bumpers and doors because of the reduction in crush zone. How safe is it to remove the bumper and retain the stock fuel tank?.

In the case of the H&N restraint systems, I'm convinced that you can't decide on the effectiveness of the different designs by eyeballing them. Scientific tests with crash test dummies and such are required. A few years from now we will have more real accident data too.

Here is link to the HANS owner's manual. There's a whole section on testing and results:

http://www.hansdevice.com/owner_manual.pdf

I also received a 10 minute video on CD with my HANS, but I don't think it's published on the web site.

One thing I forgot to mention about the HANS: I recommend getting the quick release option on the tethers. Practice exit procedures and taking the device off -- probably good advice regardless of what safety devices you use.

-Juan