Daily driving a 951?

[4re308]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the site and love it here. I am in the process of selling my VW GTI VR6 and am seriously considering an older 911 or a 951. I have lusted after a 951 for years and want a turbo car. The trust level of my GTI is beyond anything I could have imagined, the car is unbelievably reliable, fast and fun. I would like to think that I could trust and daily drive a 951. Is this possible without breaking the bank? I would like to mildly improve the performance, but over all I just want a fast, fun and reliable car that I can use and drive hard. I generally know how to care for turbo cars, turbo timer, Mobil 1, blah blah. If I could get some nice HP and reliability, I would buy one as soon as possible. Thanks for your time, and wish me luck!

Mitchy

[ronin]

welcome! the 951 is probably one of the best cars ever created. if taken care of properly, it will be a reliable daily driver. the catchphrase here is "IF TAKEN CARE OF PROPERLY." this means regular oil (and other fluid) changes, religious timing belt inspection and changes, and addressing any other maintenance issues as soon as they arise. if you simply perform regular maintenance on these cars, they can last you a lifetime and bring lots of driving pleasure. HOWEVER, be forewarned, maintenance on these cars is anything but cheap

a turbo timer may actually be counterproductive, as the fans may come on (the engine temp will cycle as the car idles) when the turbo timer is just about to shut the engine down. it would be better to keep an eye on the gauge when you park and then let the car idle until the fans stop if need be. after the engine shuts off, the turbo water pump feeds coolant to the turbo for several seconds as another means of cooling it. also, I'd recommend using dino oil instead of synthetic, as synthetics can exascerbate any leakage problems by their tendency to run through seals. I've been using Castrol 20-50 since day one and have had great success

having said all that, should you buy a turbo, I don't think you will regret it. again, welcome to the board and good luck

[Lawrence Coppari]

Ditto everything said so far. Mine has been a semi-daily driver and a track car for over 7 years. I do the maintenance so nothing costs too much other than the orginal money spent on go fast parts. Like Ronin said, do the maintenance.

You do not need a turbo timer. When working properly, the pump always comes on when you shut off the engine. After running for about 25 seconds, it will restart for other cycles when and if more heat bleeds into the turbo from the exhaust . The fans will come on and cycle as well. There is a thermostat in both the radiator and the turbo cooling jacket. The water pump for the turbo runs off a relay with a built in timer in it. Once triggered, it runs for a set time.

Mine turbo pump cycles several times when I come in from the track even after a cool down lap at Road Atlanta. My turbocharger has about 60K on it. Car has over 147K on it.

It has been reliable.

[ronin]

couldn't have said it better myself

[Lawrence Coppari]

4re308, do you have a 308?

[4re308]

Hi Lawrence, you are familiar to me! And yes I do have a 84 Ferrari 308 GTS QV in black metallic. I love the car like it was my child. I want a black or black metallic 951 as my daily driver. I am REALLY excited about possibly getting one. Thank you all for your great advice. Keep em coming! I need to be reassured about a turbo.

[ronin]

go Nike and just do it. you won't regret it. I have had mine for ten years and am still in love. an acquaintance of mine has owned several Ferraris and other cars but still thinks the 951 was the best he has ever owned

[Lawrence Coppari]

4re308, do you go to the DE's at Road Atlanta? I go there 6-7 times a year with my 951. Was there earlier this month and am going to the BMWCCA event next month. I really like my 951 but mine is nothing to look at. It is basically a track car and semi-daily driver butt kicker. It's nose is all dinged up from sand blasting at the tracks. Sometimes I get really tempted to buy one that is nice looking, not to replace the one I have but in addition to it. They are wonderful cars. You cannot drive it like you do your 308. The driving technique is different. I cannot steer mine with my foot like I can my mid engined car.

[nize]

i've got an '88 that i bought brand new. 16 years and 160k miles later it still looks and runs like new.

three major parts that i've had to replace were;
-timing belt (regularly)
-water pump (once)
-head gasket (once)

these are actually normal wear and tear parts so you'd probably need to replace those regardless of which car you own for 16 years. recently it seems the air conditioner isn't getting cold so i'll probably have to have it checked for leaks, that might cost big $.

some minor parts were various radiator hoses, brakes, spark plugs, all the regular maintenance stuff. recently i found out that one of the cv boots was cut so i replaced the joint and boot.

other than that, it's still running all stock parts that came with the car. i frequently take long road trips and it's never broken down on me. if you take care of it properly, i think this is the most reliable car ever.

on a road trip three years ago i stopped by the bonneville salt flats to have a go at top speed. the car hit 160mph easily and i could have redlined it to go higher but decided to ease off. even today i'm amazed at how fast this car is.

more importantly, the steering, handling, and general 'feel' of the car is extremely precise. you have to drive it for a while to understand this but once you do you'll wish that every other car you drive felt like this one. i think this is the reason i've never been in any accidents, though there were several near-missses (none my fault). i firmly believe that if i were in any other car with less precise handling, those near-misses would have turned into accidents.

here's me at bonneville right after hitting 160+mph. the white stuff on the side of the car is pulverized salt dust that i soon washed off.

http://groups.msn.com/nize2/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=150

[ronin]

Originally posted by nize
i've got an '88 that i bought brand new. 16 years and 160k i frequently take long road trips and it's never broken down on me. if you take care of it properly, i think this is the most reliable car ever.

couldn't agree more. mine is one year older with the same mileage. just last Saturday I took the car on a 560 mile chase around Washington state with a group of other p-cars. this was some of the most hard-core driving the car had ever done. almost all mileage that day was done at full tilt. the car completed the trip without as much as a sputter and really impressed me with how much it still has to offer

I try to pay as much attention to maintenance as possible, but haven't done much more than nize. right now the car's in need of shocks and tires, and the timing belt could stand changing soon. but other than that, everything still works as expected

[4re308]

Hey everyone, thanks for your replies. It is great info and advice. I found a couple of Turbo Ss that I like, and one 87 white one. I was able to drive a local 89 Turbo and love it. I'll keep you all posted!! If anyone runs across a 951 or 951 S please let Mitchy know! Thanks everyone.....

[nize]

Originally posted by 4re308
I found a couple of Turbo Ss that I like, and one 87 white one.

fyi, i don't think there are any turbo-s models in '87 or earlier.

afaik, the first year the 951-s was made was in late '88 and it only came in silver with a funky plaid interior (called the 'silver rose').

some pre-88 owners modify their cars so it puts out more HP and claim it's the turbo-s even though it's not (don't be fooled).

you can read some of the model history here;
http://www.clarks-garage.com/951faq.htm

and about the turbo-s here;
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/4786/

[4re308]

Thanks for the heads up Nize! Yes, in fact I have run into a few people who have retro fitted the 87 cars with Turbo S parts. How do you like your 951??