KUMHO or TOYO ??

ken180 · 01-29-2005, 12:07 PM

I am looking for user comments about the differences between KUMHO V700 and TOYO RA-1.

The car is a 914-4 @ 2300lbs. 205/50-15, 225 rear springs, 22mm front torsion bars, 22mm front sway bar, ZF limited slip.

AX but TT is more important.

Thanks,

Ken

Zeke · 01-29-2005, 10:38 PM

Did you read all the stuff on the Net? Apparently, RA-1's need no shaving to be run at the track and are fairly streetable. I have some V700's, but haven't realy put them to the test fully. They stick good when shaved and new, that's all I know.

My street and sometimes track wheels will be running the Toyo's. I'll carry the Khumo's with me to change over to when I get there and want to be more serious. At least that's my current plan.

ted · ted's Garage

The V700 is the ECSTA right? Good AX tire, takes no time to warm up. But for continuous laps can get greasy in a 25 minute session. Some have had Ecsta tires chunk too? I'd take a Kumho Victoracer over an Ecsta anyday.

That said I ran the same lap times on the Toyo Ra-1 and Victoracers. The Toyos lasted twice as many track days.
The first track day with full depth Toyos they felt squirmy from the tall tread blocks. After they shaved down a bit they were just like the Vicotracer. I thought the Toyos warmed up a bit quicker and never went off or got greasy.
The Toyos RA-1 do not benefit from traditional heat cycling prior to aggressive driving. Shaving them saves you a day of doing it yourself. Some say shaving actually can prolong the life of the tire; I never had a set shaved so I don't know.
Very good DE R rated tire.
This place had some good prices on the RA-1.
http://www.frisbyracetire.com/toyo_proxes_ra1__spec.htm

Search this site, much discussion in the past on all these and other R rated brands.

Jack Olsen · 01-30-2005, 12:24 AM

What Ted said.

I think the Kumho's might be slightly faster, with the right setup, but the Toyos last significantly longer. If I could get the Toyos in my current sizes, I'd be running them again.

ken180 · 01-30-2005, 08:53 AM

The V700 is the Kumho Victoracer.

At this time they seem to be working but as I improve suspension and lap times they are wearing out faster.

Tried Hoosiers - did realy well till I got sideways and corded them - not as durable as the Kumhos for driver errors.

Ken

Jack Olsen · 01-30-2005, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ken180
The V700 is the Kumho Victoracer.

Well, that's only half true. The actual names of two of Kumho's r-compound tires are "Ecsta V700" and "VictoRacer V700." The VictoRacer is the older model, but is preferred by a lot of racers because of the Ecsta's tendency to fall apart. There's also an "Ecsta V710" which is Kumho's attempt at a more-Hoosier-like tire.

ken180 · 01-31-2005, 08:52 AM

Jack -yep - I was just clarifing Teds question about which tire I was refering to.

Ken

Jack Olsen · 01-31-2005, 10:58 AM

Whoops. I didn't see that it was the same name on the response and the original post.

The VictoRacers will last longer than the Hoosiers, but not as long as the Toyos. IMO, Toyos are the best bang for your buck in R-compound tires.

Vintage911Racer · 01-31-2005, 11:07 AM

I have run both... NO difference in lap times... TOYO lasts longer, does not go away as qucik. I am running the Toyos from here on out....

I always get them shaved. No matter what tire it is.... and shaving is suuposed to help dissapate the heat better thus making the tire last longer...

earlyapex · 02-02-2005, 03:43 PM

My front Michelin PSC's are toast. Looks like I'll pick up a set of RA-1's in the future.

htron435 · htron435's Garage

How are the Toyos in the rain on the street? I drive to and from the track (between 70-150 miles each way). I've had Kumho MX street tires -- they have great grip at the track as far as a street tire is concerned, but I'd like something more. Will the Toyos last in terms of streetable tread depth? Also, will shaving ultimately improve the longevity?

htron435 · htron435's Garage

And while I'm asking questions, how does the Toyo compare to the Yoke A032r's?

Mike Metzler · 02-13-2005, 01:53 PM

My experience on a variety of cars is:
Ecsta V700's -- stick well, wear fast (2nd tread block from the outside rim)
V700 Victoracer -- stick well, although not quite as well as Ecsta V700s, wear well
RA-1 -- very similar to Victoracers, but last even longer
A032r -- noisy, last forever, not very sticky for a R-tire

I think the improvement from a good street tire to the A032r is smaller than the improvement from the A032r to the Kumho or Toyo tires.

Your mileage may vary.

amk · 02-13-2005, 09:37 PM

Were you using the soft or hard compound A032Rs?

I’ve been using soft compound A032Rs and recently tried the RA1s and can’t make my mind up which is better (tread wear rating is 60 versus 40).

To confuse the issue the A032Rs were not shaved and camber and ride height was set up for rallying while the RA1s were shaved and the camber and ride height was set up for circuit work. Obviously the RA1s felt like they could carry more corner speed… but not sure if it was just the alignment.

Also, found the RA1s terrible until I started running them 38psi hot (turns out this is what their web site recommends). I usually aim for 31-34psi hot for the A032Rs and have noticed they seem more predictable at higher pressure.

Going to try and transport two sets of wheels to the next track day to compare with the same alignment and ride height.

I find the A032Rs excellent in the wet. I’ve used them in track and tarmac rally wet conditions. Haven’t tried the RA1s in the wet.

Mike Metzler · 02-14-2005, 04:27 AM

To be honest, I am not certain whether the A032Rs were hard or soft compound. The last set I bought was ~5 years ago, and I do not recall there being hard/soft options. My most recent experience was with some used A032Rs that came with a set of wheels, and they certainly did not act like they were soft! Of course, that could be because they were old...

Given the dated nature of my experience with these tires, my evaluation should be taken with caution.

For tire pressures, I like ~40psi hot for the Kumhos, and 38-40 for the RA-1s.

htron435 · htron435's Garage

Do any of you have any experience driving the Toyo to and from the track?

Mike Metzler · 02-14-2005, 06:51 AM

Yes. Yes, I have driven RA-1s, VictoRacers, and A032Rs to/from the track. The primary disadvantage I see to doing that is I get a lot less track use from them -- not due to excessive wear on the highway, but because it limits how far much I am willing to wear them down on the track. If I am not driving them home, I can run them to the cords. Driving home in the rain on treadless tires is not fun, let alone safe or legal.

PedalFaster · 02-14-2005, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Metzler
To be honest, I am not certain whether the A032Rs were hard or soft compound. The last set I bought was ~5 years ago, and I do not recall there being hard/soft options.

Those would have been the hard compound, then -- the soft compound was only introduced a couple of years ago.

Steve

KobaltBlau · 03:16 PM

Are most of the people running RA-1s in light cars, or are there some heavy car guys too (~2650lb, 225/245, 22/28, bilstein HD)

edit: I'm thinking of running these full tread for DE. Tracks are on the shorter and more technical side, not too big and fast.

Thanks in advance,

Mike Metzler · 02-15-2005, 04:54 PM

I had very good success with the RA-1s on a heavy (>3300 lb, ~60% on front tires) Audi A4 quattro. A set of 225/50 R16 lasted >800 track miles on a variety of MidWest tracks (Mid-Ohio, Grattan, Putnam, GingerMan, Waterford Hills), and stuck well until I cord was showing on all four. I would definitely use them again and in fact plan to, as soon as I figure out what size to get (see How much is too much tire?).