[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Bit of a ridiculous thread no? 20 years ago you smoked everybody on the track. Fast forward and the box stock plane Jane 991 will smoke your car around the track. Seems like things have come full circle, I’m not sure why the animosity? Technology never stops, sounds like it’s time to evolve or find another venue. This is why vintage racing exists, eventually vintage cars can’t hang in the context of modern racing.

There has not even been a hint of "animosity" expressed anywhere in this thread. Where on earth did you come up with that?

Originally Posted by greglepore

But it ISN'T RACING. Its trackdays. In racing you either pony up or go home. Problem is that for a long time the trackday ecosystem was such that on a normal man's budget you could go out, learn something, have some fun, and if you dinged the car it wasn't the end of the world. The newer cars are where full on prototypes were 15 years ago, plus they have driver aids, so the average speed is well beyond the normal participants ability to cope with errors of judgement. Consequences for all concerned are on a different level entirely.

And I disagree that open passing is the answer. In a racing environment, sure. You have a cage, nomex, and fire suppression and a different level of risk acceptance. In streetish vehicles with a 50-70 mph speed differential the consequences for folks making an amateur mistake become lethal consequences. In racing, you accept that. The entire point of trackdays is a lower level of risk acceptance.

I don't think there are enough older cars and drivers to support a "vintage only" trackday environment, and I sure as hell know I don't want to be on the track with
novice drivers closing on me at those rates expecting a waveby that may or may not come. So, I'm not sure there is a solution other than the country club type environment where you can run pretty much at whim. Unaffordable for the majority here.

Spot on. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Here’s the other problem guys, in today’s dollars a well sorted air cooled 911 can be had for the same price as a 991. From the standpoint of financial parity you are pretty well screwed.

Exactly. I could sell my car tomorrow, buy a 991, and have money left over. The problem is that I have no interest in those cars, at least as a track day car. Wonderful street cars, GT cars, these new water pumpers (and like I've said, I do own, and have tracked, a Boxster S). But, to me anyway, not nearly as much fun on a track, even though they are significantly faster. I enjoy the challenge of driving the older car close to its limits.

Originally Posted by ian c2

And more importantly most see the aircooled cars as an investment so don’t REALLY want to drive them

That is certainly a part of it, at least for some folks. There are some of us who still thoroughly enjoy driving these things, however. As a matter of fact, I'm out the door as we speak to go meet up with my Pac West chapter R Gruppe guys for our monthly "Sunday Drive". Should be about 12-15 guys there, all with hot-rodded long hoods. Many of them used to track their cars regularly. They have all, individually, started reaching the same point I've reached with regards to track days with our local PCA, and have been dropping off one by one. It's a real shame. We used to have quite a contingent of early cars out there.