[javadog]

Originally Posted by spuggy

The experience you report is apparently not consistent with everyone's.

Originally Posted by spuggy

Wow. So ignoring the aspects of your reply that border on ad hominem insinuation, you can speak for the practices of every RSC worldwide, over years of experience? And you can broadly summarize all independents as well? Because, y'know, that's a what multiple respondents in a dedicated watch forum essentially do - give a broad window into practices over many AD's and RSCs - as well as independents.

I'm out. This particular conversation is clearly pointless. And you seem like a poopy-head.

I'm a poopyhead, huh? Sorry to offend your tender sensibilities. I wasn't singling you out, just commenting on the usual noise I see these threads. Let me elaborate.

I was a watch geek most of my life. Got my first watch in the 1960's (a Timex) and got my first mechanical Swiss watch (Stainless steel, 25 jewel Rolex day/date clone made by Titoni) in that same decade. Bought my first Rolex in 1982. I've owned multiple models from each of the Date, Datejust, Explorer, GMT, Submariner, Cosmograph and Day/Date lines, along with similar models from their cousins at Tudor. I've owned a slew of watches from other houses such as Omega, Vacheron Constantine, Patek Phillipe and a handful of smaller, boutique brands. At the height of my watch madness, I had roughly two dozen watches to pick from on a given day. I have had them serviced all over the world, according to what resources were available for a particular brand.

I only took my Rolexes and Tudors to the factory service centers. In the US, which is what we're discussing in this thread, there are two. Some people would lump San Fran into the list of factory service centers, I never did. The facilities there were never the same as Dallas or New York. Been there, seen that, take my word for it.

I always hand delivered my watches to the service centers, usually in Dallas. I always waited to let them disassemble and evaluate the watches, so we could come up with a plan on what to do. 90% of the time, it was nothing more than a routine service, so there was nothing much to discuss. In special cases, like the service of the 5512 referenced above, I spoke to the actual guy that was going to service my watch, to address any particular concerns about originality. None of this was any different than what was available to anybody that walked through their doors. If you mail a watch to them, you should receive the same treatment, although you may find it more difficult to communicate your wishes long distance, as you'll be dealing with the ladies that staff the front desk and not the guys in the back that work on the watches. If you send it through a dealer, all bets are off, as you've now introduced another layer in between you and them.

I do find it peculiar when someone complains about them doing unauthorized work. They will not proceed on any work until you've signed the proposal they create which lists ALL of the work that will be done, including any possible refinishing tasks to the visible parts of the watch and the replacement of any major parts such as hands, dials, bezels and crystals. All of those things are ALWAYS delineated on the proposal that you sign. It's as clear as day. They always use the correct parts for each watch, only substituting other, interchangeable parts if they have no stock of the originals. They will not use incorrect parts, not will they work on a watch that has incorrect (typically aftermarket, or not original to a specific model) parts fitted, unless you agree to first let them replace the incorrect parts with correct ones from Rolex. If you have a vintage Sub and you want to keep the original bezel, for instance, as long as they can return the watch to you fully serviced and passing all of the waterproofing tests, they are happy to do that. Likewise with things like hands, which are generally a cosmetic issue and not a functional issue. It's no big deal and I've been through this more times than most, so I tend to question any reports to the contrary. My guess is that any people that were disappointed with them doing "unauthorized" things were simply not engaged in the process and the fault lies with them and not Rolex.

As for the '"over-polishing"... I've never seen that. Most surfaces on a Roles are not polished, but brushed, and the service centers do those finishes in the same way as the factory did. I've never had a Rolex with a case or bracelet so worn that it couldn't be returned to factory fresh looking. I've even taken a watch down there for a friend (one of my old Submariners that I had sold to him) after he damaged it in a motorcycle wreck. He ran out of talent on his Harley in a 60 MPH corner, ran off the road and hit a road sign with his wrist, which immediately turned his bars and spit him off the bike. He ended up in a ditch with a compound fracture of his arm and the Rolex was scattered in 4 different places. After he was safely in the hospital and his bike was parked somewhere that I could get it later, I went back and searched the ditch for the watch pieces. The bracelet was in three pieces and the case was somewhere else. I took all that to Dallas and they put it all back together and refinished everything and it looks and works just fine today. So, I can't picture a watch that's so bad that they can't fix it.

I haven't used every independent in the US, obviously, so I can't comment on all of them. I'll say this, though. None of them have the technical resources of Rolex, none of them have the same access to parts, most of them have nowhere near the equipment or expertise and none of them add the same value to the provenance of a watch. My experience has been limited to using the biggest (some say best) independent facility in the US and the experiences of my wife sometimes using the local "Rolex factory trained guru" in my town when she'd occasionally buy me a vintage Rolex and have it serviced before giving it to me. Not one single example of that ever turned out well. Not one. Not one time did I ever take a watch to Rolex and have a problem. See how I come by my recommendations?

Lastly, about those watch forums. I, too, was a member of them for years under a variety of names. I'm quite familiar with what goes on there and what knowledge exists. Like all forums, there's a mix of good information and uninformed bull****. It never took long to figure out who was who. My involvement went deeper than that, though. I bought all of the commercially available books on Rolex (and a few other brands), as well as collected their catalogs and subscribed to all of the watch magazines. I bought all of the annual watch compilation books, to stay abreast of the market. I got to know some of the big names in the Rolex world, guys like James Dowling, for instance. That 5512 I mentioned was one of the watches I eventually bought from him.

I could go on, but why beat a dead horse? My advice is what it is, take it or leave it. I think I'm well informed on the subject but others might disagree. I don't really care at this point. I've reached the curmudgeon phase of life. Different fish to fry now.