Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Carlton
Agree on being on the side of vaccination. I'm not concerned about the (mostly treatable) side effects of vaccinations. Not when compared to the effects of hospitalization and death. It's a no-brainer.
I'm not sure what you're referring to as being from me regarding "the really nasty ones, like dying a week later, but the more insidious ones that might degrade your health over a considerable period of time." Please clarify.
Also please clarify what claims I've made that have been debunked.
We will need to agree to disagree. Isn't the more noble purposes of threads like these to discuss and explore the different sides to this? I agree I am dismayed at what problems unvaccinated people are causing. Are you aware of any?
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You dismiss the potential side effects from the vaccines. In your mind, the benefits of being vaccinated far outweigh any side effects. My point was that, without considering the most serious effects like dying from the vaccine or some people getting seriously ill after getting it, my concern is with the suspected long-term effects that haven’t been thoroughly studied yet. One example of that would be clotting of blood vessels, particularly the very small capillaries. I’m talking about damage to the walls of these vessels, those damaged that are too small to pick up on scans. I think there’s a very strong likelihood of that and there’s no going back once it’s a problem for you.
I don’t believe that you can say that immunity from a vaccine is better than natural immunity from having had Covid and survived it. I think the jury is still out on that question, as more time passes I think the vaccine immunity is being seen to be less effective. In that context, I’m not limiting the discussion to Covid only, I am looking at degradation in your immunity to other things.
I don’t think we have a good handle on how big a problem the unvaccinated really are. I see numbers tossed around about the mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated patients in hospitals and I’ve seen where those numbers have been proven to be wrong.
I also question why we think we know that the vaccinated are much more protected against serious illness, when most of the recent illness is from the Delta variant which is supposed to be less lethal anyway. How much is due to the vaccine? How much is due to the less lethal nature of the variant? I don’t think anybody has a good handle on that.
I also think that ADE is a real problem and the vaccines are making it worse.
I also don’t think we were on our way out of this thing, I think we are seeing seasonality and mutations causing dips in the curve. I don’t think we are in a pandemic, I think Covid is endemic and we are seeing that expressed in the curve.
I don’t think the FDA and CDC were corrupt under Trump and are all fine now under Biden. In fact, I think it’s worse. The head of the CDC has turned out to be as unreliable as Fauci and I don’t think much of the acting head of the FDA. I think she was brought in to ramrod the approval of the Pfizer vaccine. I posted an article about her the other day that was less than complementary. She had a hand in the opioid epidemic and was not going to be approved in the Senate to run the FDA, and the White House knew that. On the very day that the vaccine approval was announced, they all but announced her departure. I find that timing to be anything but coincidental. I also think there were problems in the approval process for the Pfizer vaccine that have been papered over. My personal feeling is that it’s not any safer than the others; certainly it’s not as safe as I would like to see it documented before getting it, and that it was just rammed through so that the politicians would have more ammunition to force people to get vaccinated. The feds know that they can’t legally mandate it but they are working hard behind the scenes to force corporations and others to do the mandating for them. They have acknowledged that, live on TV. If you think I trust a single ****ing soul in the Biden administration, you need to rethink that.
That’s about all I care to add to this discussion, I’ve discussed it elsewhere and nothing ever gets anything accomplished.