Quote:
Originally Posted by Por_sha911
I know hunters use the modern black powder rifles are for getting a jump on deer season (before modern rifles are allowed).
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That is exactly how it started for me. In the late 1970's to late 1980's, Washington allowed us to hunt deer and elk over the course of three different seasons - archery, muzzle loader, and modern firearm. I only picked up the muzzle loader, as a young eager hunter, to take advantage of that "extra" season. And, being somewhat underwhelmed by muzzle loader ballistics (when compared to modern firearms), I felt I "needed" the "most powerful" option available.
So I built a Thompson / Center "Hawken" in .54 caliber. It was the only American made option, and took one hell of a powerful load. 430 grain "Maxi Ball" over 120 grains of black powder. Boy was that thing ever effective on game. I've lost track of what has fallen to it. Perfectly capable out to 150, maybe 180 yards. It was all about having the most effective rifle that fell within the rules.
Well, sometime in the early to mid 1990's, I started noticing other hunters armed with these "modern muzzle loaders". And I started to question what we were doing. It really started to bother me, seeing these stainless steel adaptations of Remington Model 700's, replete with fiberglass stocks and all (scopes remain, thankfully, illegal here in Washington on muzzle loaders). Then the introspection started - if they are pushing the limits, how is it that I'm not, with my Maxi Ball loads?
So I tossed it all and went "all in". Started hunting with the .50 caliber flint lock. Successfully, too, but I have to tell you, there were some "moments". A 180 grain .50 caliber ball at 2,000 fps is simply inadequate for Western big game, and the flint ignition proved to be a challenge in our constant drizzle. So I took a half step back, and went with a .54 caliber percussion rifle shooting round ball.
So, yes, I understand the desire to take advantage of the "extra" seasons. The idea, however, was to offer those seasons to those willing to hunt with a far more challenging weapon. I think, at least initially, everyone understood what that meant. And, at that time, the only muzzle loaders available were those of traditional planform. Eventually, however - as we do - the "gamesmen" started pushing the limits of the rules, and came up with rifles never envisioned when those rules were written. That's where it stands today.
Granted, some states have "muzzle loader" seasons, some have "black powder" seasons, and some have "primitive weapon" seasons. Some of those specifying "muzzle loader" allow these modern rifles, and even smokeless powder. Some with "black powder" seasons allow breach loaders firing metallic cartridges, so long as they are loaded with black powder. The "primitive weapons" states seem to have kept it the purest. Pennsylvania, for example, requires flint ignition, round balls, wood stocks, open sights, and real black powder.
While I think it is time for a reassessment in most states, I also recognize that that ship has sailed. Too many stainless steel, scope sighted, plastic stocked, plastic sabot, black powder substitute shooters out there to reign this in. "Joe Sixpack" just wants to kill as much game as possible within (mostly) the law, and wants every advantage available to help him do so. It's his
right, dammit, to hunt muzzle loader seasons with these modern contrivances.
Well, I also enjoy the right to do it the traditional way. So I will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fanaudical
Great reading and info - thanks for that. There is always something to learn.
Some years ago, my BIL gifted me a used "Hawken-style" .50 cal CVA percussion rifle that somebody else had built from a kit (looks to have been built in the early '80's). He has a few black powder rifles (Pederlosi and Lyman, I think) and shoots in friendly competition with his friends in Colorado.
I don't hunt but do enjoy putting holes in paper. I thought he was kidding the first time I tried a 100 yd shot and he told me to aim ~20" above the target. I can group OK at 50 yds; I'm happy just to be on paper at 100 yds. It certainly gave me an appreciation for how difficult it was to effectively hunt with one of these; it surely is a test of skill.
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These things, when loaded and cared for properly, can be surprisingly accurate. I fully expect sub 2" five shot groups with my hunting loads at 100 yards. I've never failed to achieve that, with any rifle, after a bit of load development. And zeroed at the recommended 125 yards, they shoot fairly "flat" out to about 150. They do fall off dramatically after that, though. Which is o.k. - they have lost so much punch by then, we really have no business shooting at game any farther away than that anyway. Their trajectories are useful within the ranges of their limits of power, and vis versa. Pushing either only leads to disappointment on both ends.