[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by id911T

.45 Super has been around for decades, 30+ years or so. I suppose it's on the gun owner to know what ammo is appropriate for their gun. Seems like a lot of hand wringing in this thread over something that has been a non-issue for a long time.

Dean Grennell developed it in 1988 so, yes, it's been around for awhile. That does not make it a good idea. And, yes, it is entirely incumbent upon the shooter to know what is appropriate for his or her firearm. And if you think this is, or has been a "non-issue", you have simply not been paying attention. Less than knowledgeable shooters, and unlucky bystanders, get seriously injured by these "non-issues". It's best to have insurmountable "mechanical controls" that will absolutely prevent this.

Oh, and as an aside, anyone who would characterize safety concerns such as this as "hand wringing" probably shouldn't be allowed around firearms. You certainly would never be allowed on my club range.

Originally Posted by id911T

The .460 Rowland (which operates at even higher pressures) does exactly as you suggest, the case is 1/16" longer.

Yes, there are a number of similar cartridges that employ this sort of mechanical control. Always a good idea. In light of this, there really is no excuse for the .45 Super.

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I recently bought a Ruger Blackhawk Flat Top New Model with 45 ACP and 45 Colt cylinders. I did some research to find that my particular revolver has a medium frame which can handle hot loads BUT the cylinder walls are thinner. The 'New Models' aren't as strong as the original Blackhawks. As such, I only shoot SAAMI loads.

You are partially correct. New Model Blackhawks are actually stronger than original three screw Blackhawks. They use the larger frame of the original Super Blackhawk in .44 Magnum. Ruger originally made two frame sizes, the smaller Blackhawk for the .357 and .41 magnums, and the .45 Colt. The larger Super Blackhawk chambered the .44 magnum.

When they went to the two screw (actually pins) and transfer bar, they consolidated all of their Blackhawks on the Super Blackhawk sized frame, making it unnecessarily large for the smaller calibers. All modern transfer bar Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks now share this large frame. Ruger fans clamored for a reissue of the original small frame guns, with the result being the new "Flat top". As an aside, the New Vaquero is downsized from the first generation (built on the large frame) as well, and is much closer to the size of the old Colt Peacemaker as a result.

So we are now back to two sizes of Blackhawk - the small frame Flat Top and New Vaquero, and the standard Blackhawk/Super Blackhawk that share the large frame. The New Vaqueros and Flat Tops are still a good deal stronger than the Colt, but not as strong as the Blackhawk/Super Blackhawk.

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Now here's the kicker: most ammo manufacturers don't publish the psi of their rounds. I found some Underwood 45 Colts which were higher fps and muzzle velocity but still 14,000 psi (Underwood also makes +P hot loads). Since none of the info on the box or website gave the psi, I called them to be sure I was using safe ammo. As already stated, +P and Buffalo Bore "++P" ammo will fit my revolver but I am not interested in blowing up the cylinder.

I admire your prudence. I bet you still have all of your fingers, and both eyes. But, yes, your new Flat Top will happily digest "+P" and "+P+" loads all day long without any trouble. Its cylinder is shorter than the full size Blackhawk. I know my own 300 grain loads, meant for my full size Blackhawks, are too long for my New Vaquero. Not sure about the commercial stuff, like Buffalo Bore. I would hope it is.

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Unfortunately, some folks "get them a gun and wanna shoot somethin" without proper instruction or understanding. When it comes to hot loads, they can qualify for the Darwin Award fairly quickly.

I have been at this long enough to have personally been there when guns have blown up. I've been involved in too many "after action debriefs" at my club in the wake of these incidents. People have been very, very seriously hurt. It's easy to say "they had it coming", but most often they did not. And they are still hurt. Due diligence is demanded, of course, but the industry can - and has - done things to help. As well they should.

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

+P ammo has been around for a long time. I shoot +P in my 9mm (not quite the same as Buffalo Bore though). I have to imagine that the ammo manufacturers would have been sued by now. I know that Underwood puts a disclaimer on their website for +P (aka 'Ruger Only') ammo saying you have to have a large frame revolver but it takes a lot more time and effort to really understand.

I'm a huge advocate for personal responsibility. I don't think anyone should be able to sue when they make this kind of a mistake, especially with the packaging as clearly labeled as it is today. Shooting is serious business, and needs to be treated with respect. Far more so than most endeavors.