Quote:
Originally Posted by id911T
Ha, ok. Guess those of us who have been shooting and loading this cartridge for years will keep doing so. Carry on.  |
Absolutely. As you should. But you are not the problem, and therefor not the focus of this discussion. You know what you are doing with it, use it in the proper firearms, and will never have any trouble. You have my full support.
The danger lies in the duffer who has no idea using it in his standard 1911. He
will get hurt, or hurt someone else. There is nothing to physically prevent him from doing so. That's my only beef with this.
And sorry I came on so strong. Gun safety is admittedly a "hot button" issue for me. To blow our concerns off as "hand wringing" seems inappropriate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadd
So color me confused. What is the issue with unsupported cases? My old MAC10 is open bolt and the .45 case balloons as it cycles... you just don't reload those. I go to great trouble to clean up after using that weapon. That one actually the hotter the ammo, the better it runs.
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That's a great question. These are two different issues, with misleading similarities.
The MAC10 does not lock up in any way whatsoever, as you know. It relies entirely upon the inertia of the bolt to slow down its cyclic rate and to prevent the bolt from opening when pressures remain too high. The 1911, in contrast, keeps the slide and frame joined during the initial part of their rearward travel, allowing pressures to drop to a safe level before disconnecting the two. That's what the little link under the barrel does.
The MAC10, in the interest of surety of function over anything else, actually opens a bit too soon, resulting in the bulged cases you see. This is important, however - pressures have dropped below the yield point of the cases. The case is, in fact, fully supported at the time of firing, at the highest point in the pressure curve. So they bulge, but they won't burst. And yes, believe it or not, they can be reloaded. Case life is shortened, but you can still get plenty of reloads out of them.
The 1911 is a whole different story. The unsupported part of the case is unsupported during the highest pressure phase of the ignition cycle, from the moment when the firing pin hits. And therein lies the danger. The pressures generated by the .45 Super exceed even what its thicker brass will hold if it is unsupported.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadd
I do get your issue, but its not like the market is flooded with the stuff. I usually get mine from Midway and there are only a few brands. It is also pricey running around $1.35 a round. I think the cheapest I have purchased pre covid was .89 a round.
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Agreed, but I subscribe to Murphy's Law. And I've
seen shooters get hurt at my range, I've even driven one to the hospital. And I've just heard of too many accidents. Or, more precisely, incidents brought about through carelessness. Like I said above, gun safety is a real hot button issue for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadd
What is so nice about the super is that it shoots so flat. It is almost a foot in height on the target between super and Walmart Winchester plinking rounds... and that is in the pistol.
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Oh, believe me, I fully appreciate its merits. And no, it would be no risk to me, to you, nor to id911T. But we're not the guys I'm worried about.
Anyway, for those of you wondering what an "unsupported" vs. "fully supported" chamber looks like, I found this. The standard 1911 is on the left, a fully supported version on the right. Notice how much of the case ahead of the extractor groove is visible. This is where they fail when subjected to too high of pressure:
