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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Out there somewhere beyond the doors of perception
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyl View Post
If you want to get into the weeds, it’s not just the supply of money (M), it’s the velocity of money (V). In a recession, people and businesses get scared, stop spending, dollars sit hoarded in bank accounts instead of moving through the system buying things. So you can increase M in a recession without creating inflation, because V is collapsing . You’re actually trying to keep M * V stable, to avoid deflation. After the threat passes, and V odd picking up again, you reduce M.

As a practical matter, though, what really happened is that in a few weeks, 20% of Americans lost their jobs or were about to, more than 20% of American businesses were starting at collapse, the US Treasury market was about to collapse, the same was happening around the world, and inflation was the least of anyone’s worries.

The US government threw $4TR at the real economy to keep people eating, housed, in business, not doing a Grapes of Wrath Depression remake. Remember that a large percent of Americans don’t have even two months of expenses in savings, and that a large percent of American businesses have large amounts of debt that has to be rolled over every year or more often.

The Federal Reserve threw $4TR at the financial system to keep it from blowing up. Remember that funds, companies don’t keep that much cash around, when they need cash they sell Treasuries or similar safe securities, and when everyone in the world is trying to sell and no-one is trying to buy, even US Treasuries go no-bid, prices plunge in big gap falls, and falls in prices make more funds and companies desperate if not insolvent, triggers massive margin calls, and the whole thing goes into a death spiral.

Almost every rich country - US, Europe, Canada, etc - that had the means to do the same did so. In the poorest countries, people went hungry. China and much of Asia resorted to intense lockdowns (what we called a lockdown in the US was amateur hour in comparison). The US and other Western countries are rich in money but not in social control, so we went the money route.

It worked. There wasn’t a global Great Depression, the financial system survived, most companies and businesses survived, etc. Maybe the dose given was too high, who knows, but the patient lives.

So now we have to deal with the after effects (over dose?), one of which is inflation. M went way up, V recovered, now M has to be pulled down.

The US govt is not really able to take back money it has given out, and even though the federal tap has been mostly shut off, a bunch of that money went to the states who are still handing it out. Things like China locking down and its effect on the supply chain, Russia invading Ukraine, have complicated things. Politics gets involved - it was involved in pouring the money in (remember Trump wanting his signature on the initial stimmy checks, to help with his re-election? and then Biden wanted his share of credit too?) as well. But the pandemic-driven excess in household bank amounts is being drawn down, it will probably be gone by mid-2023.

The Federal Reserve has a lot more ability to take back money. Driving the Fed funds rate from zero to 4% in less than a year pulls a lot of money out - house prices falling, bond and stock prices falling (something like $10 TR in stock market value lost in 2022, and a much larger amount in bond market value), companies less able to borrow, stupid crap like crypto and SPACs and NFTs imploding, now companies starting to layoff and freeze projects - and about $80BN/mo (about $1TR/yr rate) is also being pulled out via balance sheet run-off.

At this point, I’m not sure the money injections in 2020/21 are the most stubborn driver of inflation. They certainly drove house prices and rents up, but that is reversing quickly. The stubborn part now is labor shortages and rising wages. Some of that is people retiring early because their stocks went up or to trade crypto, but there’s other things going on.

I’m rambling, sorry, and phone battery about to die. Pick this up tmrw.

Edited: typos
Very eloquently put...you could be a Biden econ adviser...

According to FRED....the Velocity of money slid down a cliff in 08 and never recovered... and fell off a cliff in 20 and has stayed there, at the beginning of 2022 the V was at 1.14 and with inflation is a stellar 1.19 on 11/30/22...so all of this inflation has resulted in a 0.05 increase in the velocity of money...the earth is trembling with anticipation of a robust econ with that one..

I want some of what JYL is smoking.

Money has become ever more stagnant since 08...more USD applied has not moved the needle...Money is hardly moving...

Now that the FED is taking money off the table what is going to prop up the econ? They delayed taking it off for as long as they could...but were forced to raise rates...and decrease the Balance sheet because........the USD and Bonds had lost credibility globally.

As Walmart has explained their revenues are up, but electronics, sports equip, apparel prices are declining because of excess inventory...it is not selling... low margin stuff like food and essentials is what is driving Walmarts revenues.. so you are seeing DEMAND DESTRUCTION for consumer goods while food etc is still in inflation mode...

The American consumer is using the credit card to make ends meet and NO LONGER HAS THE DISCRETIONARY INCOME TO BUY STUFF..that means factory jobs are going to be lost...and no job means no money to buy food.

That is why China is in big dodo...and is probably why you have not heard about Taiwan lately.

The shipping rates from China for Sept were down 90% to the west coast and 78% to the est coast...year over year...that means less ships with less stuff on board...no one is buying..

I would think that there are going to be some wicked sales after the holidays as retailers are gona want to move the merch real bad.. after the merch is moved it won't be replaced with as much...empty shelf space..and if that new merch doesn't move...that means the Chinese guy aint gotta job no more..

The age of ABUNDANCE and seeming prosperity is over, gone, done, Kaput. Now it is a grm reality of down to the bone..
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Last edited by tabs; 12-09-2022 at 12:38 PM..
Old 12-09-2022, 12:17 PM
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