[CamB]

911ctS - how is it they can do this on welfare living where they are? How much actually is the welfare check? Here in NZ, I'm pretty sure our equivalent is slightly lower than the minimum wage - given that I earn many times that and only have a student wife to support, sometimes I wonder how people with a modest family on a benefit can exist.

It would certainly suck.

People often tend to focus on the "rich" beneficiaries - in NZ there was the well publicised discovery that the top beneficiary earned slightly over NZ$60k per year (average household income is only in the early 50s). But it was a special case - lots of children/dependants. Yes, the system is flawed when someone can do that. Yes, the system is flawed when you have second generation beneficiaries dependant in government handouts.

But no system is going to be perfect, and the costs of a perfect welfare system would outweigh the enforcement/compliance cost IMO. The tax system is kinda similar.

I guess what I am saying is that focusing on specific outcomes is not going to win any battles here. The average outcome, or some percentile, is a better focus. Personally, I am happy to pay a level of taxes which sees vast majority (lets call it 90%) above the poverty line.

Final thought - New Zealand has no people begging for money openly. I would be asked for money on the street extremely infrequently. For that reason, I think our welfare system works.