[djmcmath]

Thanks for the positive feedback, Supe. It's encouraging to have an occasional reminder that Pelican can support positive dicussion, rather than merely name-calling and regurgitation of truths and half-truths we've all heard before.

The following is a rant, indirectly related to the topic of this thread, but more closely related to the pattern of threads discussing Christianity and it's weaknesses.
It occurs to me that if more Christians actually sat down and bothered to read the Bible to find out what it is we're supposed to really believe, things would be different. For one, Christians might actually live like little-Christs, something we rarely get right. For two, it's entirely possible that we'd be able to effectively communicate our position to people who don't understand it -- something we also routinely fail miserably at, as a group. Third, people who aren't Christians could look at our lives, talk to us about what we believe, and they'd realize that the fundamental position has coherency -- quite unlike the often radically differing views that are found wandering around the mostly empty skulls of many people who call themselves Christians.

Part of the problem is modern churches. So many people come to church not to learn about God, to serve others, to become better Christians, but rather to be served, to be taught, to leech off the good-will and mercy of other Christians. Needless to say, the latter approach is neither Biblical nor conducive to a positive church experience. Of course, the above problem only affects Christians who go to church. I meet many people who claim to be Christian, but can't explain what it means, or why, and have no idea when they last attended a fellowship of other Christians. Such individuals are no more Christian than the Catholic who was sprinkled at birth but hasn't been back since, or the Muslim who was born in Medina and has since migrated to Chicago and doesn't even own a Koran. You would no more base your interpretation on the Koran on an Arab who had never read it than you would base your interpretation of the Bible on the word of a man who claimed to be Christian, but whose life clearly does not reflect his claims.

Perhaps I'll start a series of threads on basic biblical hermaneutics. Perhaps I'll slowly work through Romans. With some participation from all the dissenting parties, we could at least come to agreement about what conservative Christians believe about the Bible.

In a way which is particularly saddening to me, as a Christian, I find that Pelican is often a more ready example of Christ-like virtues than my church. I see people volunteering to drive off to random places to help people they barely know venture into the unknown. I see intelligent discussion on a wide variety of topics, most of which have the aim of furthering the immersion into perfect Porschism on many levels -- from the newest of the new to the most senior Pelican. OTOH, I also see back-stabbing, trolling, threats of violence, name-calling, cruel sarcasm, etc.

The parallel is actually pretty good -- we are unified about only one thing -- Porsches are cool. Outside of that, anything is up for argument. The farther from the base topic of the coolness of Porsches, the more disagreement there is. Virtually all Christians agree on the bumper-sticker "Salvation by faith," while disagreeing on almost everything else.

(shrug) I'm done. Thanks for listening.

Dan