[Superman]

I'm not going to argue further, but just to say that characterizing conservatives (particularly those who are trying to incorporate their religious moraes into our legal code) as tolerant and liberals as intolerant is seriously twisted thinking.

Len, you are about as reasonable as a twisted thinker can be and I actually have some understanding and support for aspects of your political hopes for my country. Your definition above is another concept that is helpful. I hope I do not sound critical when I say that, while it's nice to pretend that conservatives cause people to no longer need their assistance, I'd be interested to hear how many brownie points you believe should be awarded for the heroic and compassionate act of leaving people to their own devices and, in the absence of assistance, to fend for themselves. That sounds kinda like Dubya's brilliant plan for Social Security.....suggest that people save some money for retirement.

Of course, this is a trap (I might as well tell you since you seem fairly smart anyway) since you'll be playing into the liberals' hands if you start down the road of saying you support methods (a.k.a "programs") to assist the more unfortunate in our society to become self-sufficient without giving them handouts. You see, among us lunatic liberals, one of the main reasons our welfare programs have not been more successful is that they have never been funded at a level that would allow their success. I have ranted several times here over the years about my experiences in public sector employment, and one of my main gripes is that both sides of the isle know how to give everyone an excuse to feel victorious, without actually impacting citizens or workers. Liberals pass an attractive law or create an attractive program.....and the conservatives block the effective funding of that program. See? Everyone's happy. And you can continue to complain that these programs don't work.

So, which is it. Leave them alone to fend for themselves ("Let them eat cake"), or fund the programs that actually help them? If all you're willing to do is leave them alone to contribute or starve, then you don't get brownie points for anything but selfishness. And if you approve the programs....they are not as inexpensive as you'd like to pretend they are.