Thread: Guns?
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Isabo Isabo is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 1,515
HardDrive,
If you don't want to own a gun, don't.
If you don't want to carry, don't.
This ground has been covered so many times already on this forum.
In your opening post you come across as a pro-gun person, now you are replying as an indecisive fence straddler.
Following is my reply to the why own a gun querry raised, I copied it from some of my earlier posts on the matter.

Why own a gun?
Because they are fun.
Because I have a moral right to defend myself and my property. They even the playing field between a small woman and a big brute running off his head on drugs or drink.
Because it does not give me an illusion of safety, it gives me a measure of safety. If I cannot own and carry a handgun legally, then it is bad law and I shall not respect it.
We've been around this topic on a lot of internet forums many times, neither side has ever convinced the other, those with no experience of realities continue to preach their mantras about the police protecting us and I don't understand why you need a gun and I live in a slum ghetto and I don't need a gun to protect myself in my home and I feel perfectly safe walking in my street.
Well, I, my husband and my daughter have been issued carry permits because there is a demonstrable need and the authorities accept they are not able to offer adequate protection in my home or in the street. They are not issued as easily in Italy as in the US.
I do not think I am unsafe in my home or in the street. I know it for a fact.
If you don't want to own a handgun, don't. Do not question my right to own one or to use it.

Some observations
Homicide and shooting statistics: How many relate to criminal deaths or woundings ie they were either the aggressor or not an innocent participant?
How many times has the fact that someone was armed and produced their handgun defused a situation without a shooting, eg an aggressor deciding to run off? (No stats on that one)
The perception of a threat is very subjective as is different people's awareness levels. My awareness level is high - not naturally, but by training.
Have I ever been involved in a defensive/gun situation? The answer is yes, both serious and defused, the details are my business and still stressful after many years. It also has a lot to do with what many see as an extreme position on the subject for a middleaged woman.

I saw this a little while ago: Any thoughts?
Florida Governor Signs Deadly Force Law

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - Florida Gov. Jeb Bush signed a new anti-crime law on Tuesday that allows people to kill in self-defense without first trying to flee.

Supporters say the law is a logical extension of common law that allows homeowners who fear for their lives to use deadly force to defend themselves from an intruder in their homes.

The new law expands that doctrine to include people in public places who feel threatened and could be subject to death or great bodily harm.

"To suggest that you can't defend yourself against a rapist, who's trying to drag you into an alley, or against a carjacker who's trying to drag you out of your car is nonsense," said Marion Hammer, a former president of the National Rifle Association.

"The ability to protect yourself, your children or your spouse, is important, no matter where you are."

Critics of the new law, called the "Stand Your Ground" bill, have few objections to allowing people to protect themselves in their homes but say the bill will create a "Wild West" mentality in public, where residents may shoot first and ask questions later.

"There are going to be a lot of repercussions," said Rep. Eleanor Sobel, a Democrat. "You could have someone reaching into their pocket and if the person felt threatened he could shoot."

Like many states, Florida courts have ruled that homeowners have a right to defend themselves in their homes. Florida courts have expanded the doctrine to include employees in their workplace and drivers who are attacked in their automobiles.

Outside the home, however, courts have ruled that most victims must at least attempt to escape before using deadly force, a provision gun advocates say puts victims at greater risk. The new law removes that requirement if a person has a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm.

"All this bill will do is sell more guns and possibly turn Florida into the OK Corral," Rep. Irv Slosberg, a Democrat, said during recent debate on the bill.

I think running away may often be the sensible option. I don't think I should be legally obliged to, especially in my home.
My car is an extension of my home. However, I don't usually leave my pistol in my car as I am too afraid of having my car broken into or stolen, without of course mentioning carparks where you have to leave your keys and the monkey parks baby. Otherwise I would keep something fullsize readilly accessable and out of sight in my car. Responsible gunowners with permits are typically the most peaceful, quiet and responsible people one can meet, we're usually the ones that walk away from troublesome situations.
Parents with guns have a responsibility to teach proper handling and safety to their children. My daughter grew up around firearms and it was never any big deal. Today she also has a permit, I don't think most of her friends know about it - discretion is also something you have to practice and teach your children.
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Old 07-19-2005, 10:02 AM
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