[Superman]

Babies are FAR more open minded than Atheists. To compare them is a great insult to babies, IMO.

I'd say the "what the heck" argument can be applied here, though I understand that a pastor might place pressure on parents as a condition of performing the ritual. I understand the pastor's point of view, but ultimately would call BS on that strategy if he takes it too far. It'd be a litmus test, in my view, to see what the pastor says when the following bottom line is presented: "No, we're not going to join your congregation, but here we are presenting you with an opportunity to baptize an infant in the name of Christ. Will you do this, or are you refusing?"

As most of you know, I am a practicing Catholic (not currently teaching CCD classes or anything), former Altar Boy, yadda yadda (who happens to also be comfortable around naked hippies) and you know my penchant for needling conservatives here, but I'll go ahead and give you the Church's position. Basides the sin you commit yourself (we all do, by choice, things we know are wrong), there is Original Sin. Sin we carry by association. By the nature of our fallen condition. Factually, we are separated from God. Another way to illustrate it is to point out what seems obvious to me, that being in the presence of God is impossible while you are "blemished." In order to achieve that, you will need to be completely unstained, and baptism removes the stain you have, but did not bring on yourself through your selfish (all sin is a matter of selfishness) decisions. That's somewhat of a description of the Church's position.

Now, I understand the head-scratching nature of a theology that seems to conclude that a perfectly innocent newborn baby would not be welcomed into God's arms. It is ludicrous to suggest that these little angels are sent to hell. They are not. But limbo is not regarded by me as a silly "oops" fill-in excuse for a failed theology. We make words and phrases and sentences to describe what we can nether describe, nor understand. So, when some of this stuff is head-scratching, the folks who think they are brilliant go to town pointing out how smart they are compared to Christians. Let's just say there are people they fail to impress this way.

My answer to many of these conundrums (babies not getting to go to Heaven, third world humans going to Hell because they've never even heard of Jesus Christ, and other assorted head-scratchers): It is my expectation that God is more generous, and more loving, than any of us can possibly fathom. In fact, as I look around me and see life, I think that's already irrefutably obvious (except that the geniuses keep trying). I think that salvation is something you can fail to choose. But I also think God is charitable and merciful beyond understanding.

Len, if you had a chance to put a penny in a well, and you knew that this would ensure that a certain terrible financial calamity would not befall your child, would you invest the penny?