Quote:
Originally posted by IROC
There is no effort underway to "prove" evolution. There is no current credible debate as to whether "evolution" has occured or not.
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Of course there isn't. That's because evolution was considered proven as soon as the secular world realized that there was a model for the great philosophical problem of where we came from that didn't involve any greater being. Evolutionists don't feel the need to prove something that they feel is obviously better on philosophical grounds. Evolutionists also refuse to lend credence to anything they disagree with, so, by definition, there is no credible debate.
Quote:
IROC
"Something from nothing" is actually creationism, right?
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"Something from nothing" is actually an age-old philosophical problem, and lies at the heart of all this nonsense. Obviously, something exists. Obviously, it had to come from somewhere. There are only two options: what we see has existed forever or something else existed forever and produced what we see from nothing. (I have never seen a credible argument for the idea that the universe willed itself into existence at some point in the distant past, though it is an entertaining idea.)
There are a great many people who name themselves as evolutionists who hold to the second theory, simply because they don't like the idea that everything we see today has existed forever, or that evolution, in all its complexity, happened without some outside assistance. The evolutionist variant of it simply holds that something outside of the rules of the universe was involved in the initial formative process, much like a watchmaker builds a watch, winds it up, and lets it go. This approach avoids all of the current difficulties with the fossil record, the increasing complexity which is an apparent violation of the laws of thermodynamics, and all of the general problems with "How did such-and-such evolve?"
Of course, such people are rejected by the evolution camp because they suggest the existence of a higher being, despite the fact that they use the same evidence to come to a frightfully similar solution, complete with all the same history, and despite the fact that they name themselves as "evolutionists."
(shrug) But then, we've talked about evolution before, and I'm ok with disagreeing. I just think that the close-minded exclusivity of your camp is entertaining, really, from a philosophical standpoint.
