[island911]

Originally posted by island911
Sammy -- As much as I have respect for your input on this and so many other topics, I have a hard time believing that you have "the truth" cornered here.

You are using numbers supplied by "big Oil" . . .

The big question is, what is the extent of market manipulation by 'big Oil."

To tell us that "big oil' does nothing to manipulate markets (manipulation is from media only) is insulting.

Originally posted by sammyg2
In not is it my intention to insult anyone. If that is how my post was percieved I appologize for not wording it better.
I am just trying to put a stop the bleeding caused by misinformation and repeated false claims by people who have little real knowledge of the subject and base their statements on nothing more than a hunch.

the numbers I quoted were directly from the quarterly reports provided by XOM to the US government (DOE and the IRS). They are also automatically audited by accounting firms as a matter of standard practice. There is no US industry that is consistantly more scrutinized as far as accounting and business practices that the oil industry. I doubt any other large industry could stand up to the same scrutiny and come out as clean. Not perfect, but cleaner than the rest and incredibly cleaner than the general public would expect. If anyone can prove that the oil companies are lying in their quarterly financial reports, step forward and you will get a big fat reward, probably in the $millions. No takers? I didn't think so. If it was really happening it wouldn't take long for it to be front page news. it isn't, so the media resorts to distorting the facts to try and make them look bad.
Some politicians base their entire platform on the promise that they will go after big oil. They try but find nothing. Every time the price of fuel goes up, some ignorant politician starts a congressional investigation. Every time they find nothing except an education on how things really work. Barbara Boxster is a perfect example of a politician who either doesn't get it or just plays stupid for personal gain, she has gone after oil a few times with wild claims of inpropriety but always comes away emptyhanded and looking foolish. Every time a refinery in the US cuts production they have to immediately notify the state and federal governments and offer an explanation. That notification usually results in a visit from the government officials to check it out. I have sat in a whole bunch of those meetings. In every one of them I was involved in, the officials agreed that we were without blame and the situation that caused the rate reduction was unavoidable.

I know of one time in the past 20 years where a large oil company intentionally cut production to change the market. that was by Bill Greehey (former CEO of valero). He cut production the valero refineries by 25% in the gulf coast region in order to increase the price. The reason? At the time (around 1999) the cost to refine and distribute gasoline in that region exceeded the wholesale price. they were loosing a penny or two on every gallon produced. He also anounced to the world that he was cutting production and explained why. He told the everyone that Valero would not make gasoline at a loss and as soon as it became profitable they would resume productiion. No backroom deals or funny hand shakes.
That is the only time I know of where an oil company intentionally cut production to affect the supply. I know from 23 years of experience that if a refinery manager cuts production he gets in trouble. If it happens more than a few times because of mechanical breakdowns, he looses his job. I know that if an operator causes a loss of production he gets in serious trouble, if he doesn't loose his job.
i know from many years of personal experience that if the head of the rotating equipment department has a piece of critical rquipment fail and irt reduces production, he gets called on the carpet over it. BTDT too many times. I even got in trouble one time for not anticipating a lightening storm that knocked a unit offline. ( we never get lightening storms in southern California).
I know for a fact that there is nothing more sacred that maximizing production in an oil refinery. My shop rebuilds large pumps and some of my customers are the local refineries. When production is threatened, money is no object as long as I get it done quickly for them. The only thing they care about is not loosing any production. That is a way of life in the refining business and has been as long as I can remember.

I also know of times when an oil company sold it's product in a different region (in one case there was a big scandal because they sold it to the midwest instead of the west coast). The reason it was worth more in the midwest. They made more money selling it there. Shame on them for doing the same thing we do on e-bay. sell to the highest bidder. Last I checked that wasn't illegal, not even immoral. Comanies are supposed to make money. That is what the shareholders demand.

If anyone has detailed examples of oil companies intentionally manipulating a market other than I have listed, please share. Sure someone might be able to dig up a little thing here or a scrap there, but there isn't a great big conspiracy. IMO It just doesn't happen. As much as we want to believe it, it just doesn't.

I am all ears. I believe these statements I have made to be logical, accurate, and baased on proof. If someone has real proof that i am misled I want to hear it. No quotes from fringe lunatic websites posing as consumer watchdogs, please. There are some real doozies out there.

okay, hyjack excized . .. discuss