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Originally posted by cool_chick
Ok, so again, what's "winning" in Iraq? I'm serious about that. When do we know we "won?" How?
And BTW, those hopes unfortunately will probably not materialize.....they've made a military deal with Iran....their constitution is essentially setting up a theocracy, that country is probably going to end up being a worse threat in the long run. That's just my opinion.
And if you're going to blame Clinton, you really need to blame Reagan as well for training those guys and exchanging weapons, etc..... and blame Bush II for not making it a priority either until after 9/11. In fact, he put it further down the pile than Clinton did (Clinton actually didn't ignore it, he tried covert operations, had Rudd-Hartmann conduct their report, handed that to Bush, etc., but that's another topic).
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Everyone has their own version of whats "winning" but I already put down mine above. Saddam out of power (done), a local government, elected by their people (done, but somewhat shaky) and the military able to handle the security of the country (a lot of work to do here). Remember that these people have in most cases never had control over their future, so they are treading on new ground here. Its not going to be stable and all nice and fancy from day one. There is going to be dickering, conflict and it will probably not be stable from the outset. Thats why the West needs to help until they get up and on their feet.
Some people say that we have won already, just getting Saddam out, and I cannot disagree but as well had we done that and waltzed out the next week the situation would be a lot worse.
I did not blame Clinton, please read the post again! I simply said that had the job been done right and Bin Laden eliminated that we probably would not have been as it is now. As well I do not feel that we would have had the WTC disaster had Bin Laden been killed the first time. Blaming Clinton is not going to correct anything, nor is blaming Bush 1 or 2. The Clinton admin had several chances to kill/kidnap Bin Laden and did not act on it and that did not help. Blaming Reagan is not going to wash. Just because we train and equip a country who is our ally at this minute does not and cannot guarantee that they will remain our ally in the future. We have to act on the situation right now, not what it could be in the future.
I do direct some blame on Bush 1 for stopping 100 miles outside of Baghdad and not taking Saddam out at that time, but it was his call.
Joe A