[Jeff Higgins]

I do know many gays, Steve. I do understand it is a very strong, maybe even irresistable urge to them to be attracted to their own sex. That does not make it "right".

Steve and Denis, I agree fully that it is a naturally occuring urge; leaning towards your term "aberation", Denis. That still does not make it acceptable. People repress all kinds of unnacceptable urges in our society. The only difference now is that gays have decided they don't want to anymore, and they are attempting to rally support. They are finding that support in liberalism, to the detriment of liberalism.

I realize, Steve, that pedophelia is a somewhat ridiculous comparrison for most people to make; that's why I threw it out there. It is, however, a naturally occuring aberation. Pedophiles cannot help it. Does anyone really believe they choose to have those uncontrollable urges? That they chose that behavior, knowing full well the social and legal ramifications of doing so? Geez Steve, you must not know any pedophiles. I take it you're not Catholic. (Sorry, low blow there...)

And yes, I believe gays have rights. Just like everybody else; no more, no less. They do not get special rights because they are gay. They do not get to re-define marriage. They can marry like anyone else; man to woman. No one denies them that right. It is only recently that they have tried to broaden their rights beyond the rest of our's, and that has decidedly turned out to be yet another nail in their liberal supporters' coffin.

You can argue pro-gay all you want; it serves to emphasise my point about my drift away from liberalism, or its drift away from me. These issues are driving away more people than they are attracting. The liberal stance on this, and so many other issues today, is just fundementally wrong to so many that would otherwise be liberals. Guys like me.