[Nathans_Dad]

Sorry I missed all the fun after my post...lots of good discussion going on...

Cam: I didn't say people were genetically inferior, that would be Steve. Look to him to support his argument, not me.

Steve: You asked for the prototypical conservative response...I'm not sure I can give that because I don't think I'm the prototypical conservative. But, I will give you MY response:

I don't think that people who don't succeed in America are genetically inferior to those that do. That is just another in the long line of excuses that make up the "victim generation". I can't get ahead because I'm poor, I can't get ahead because I'm black, I can't get ahead because I'm gay, I can't get ahead because the gubmint won't give me my welfare, I can't get ahead because my daddy left me when I was young, I can't get ahead because I'm short, or tall, or fat, or thin, or whatever. It's all a bunch of crap.

Are certain people born with advantages? Absolutely. No doubt. Is it harder for people who come from tough situations to make it? Yes. Without a doubt. Is that an EXCUSE for never doing anything with your life? HELL NO.

Case in point. I met a congressman from Illinois (I believe) about 3 years ago in D.C. He was speaking at the church my father attends. After his speech, I was able to talk with him (he is a black Democrat, by the way). The man was born in rural Alabama to a share-cropper. He had to WALK 5 miles to school every day (each way) and sit in an unairconditioned schoolhouse in the Alabama heat. His family did not have a dime to their name. Guess where he is now? He is a college graduate, a law school graduate and a US Congressman. So please get off the idea that some people are born to fail and it's up to the rest of us to support these poor, downtrodden, GENETICALLY INFERIOR (your words, not mine)members of our society.

In a country where someone can come up with a PET ROCK and make millions, I think there is plenty of opportunity for hard working people, even if they don't meet your definition of the "successful" person. Ever watch the show American Chopper? How about Monster Garage? I don't think Paul Sr. would fare very well in a classroom or in some upper management position. But the guy is a multi-millionaire from making custom motorcycles with his hands.

I think that social security is a good thing. I think that short-term programs to help those that have lost their jobs is a good thing. I think that programs to try and give the less fortunate a help up is a good thing. I think institutionizing poverty in the form of welfare and making a large percentage of our population dependent on the gubmint for their daily bread is a BAD THING. I believe in a hand UP, not a hand OUT.

BTW, it's very refreshing to see a debate thread that hasn't yet mentioned the I**q word...