Quote:
Originally posted by onewhippedpuppy
Despite personal experiences, as somebody else said, the numbers don't lie. Toyota has been a consistent leader in reliability and resale value for a long, long time.... As far as the sludging problem, I've seen some pics on bimmerforums, scary stuff. Image a head with clumps of chocolate pudding in it to get the idea.
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That's interesting. Have you heard of Toyota's sludge problems in their V6's? Oh, sorry, Toyotas are perfect.
http://yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html
"This page and section started off somewhere in Jan. 01 when I was seeing and getting an increasing number of engines that had severe sludge build up internally. At that time all the blame was being placed on the owner with the reasoning that they were not taking care of the engine as Toyota suggested. I felt that with the shear number of vehicles affected that something else was at the root cause. In February 02 Toyota finally acknowledged the condition, without taking real blame for any engineering problems, and started to correct the affected engines. They had some conditions that had to be met but their Special Policy Adjustment was a good start. Now this week, April 3, 02, they finally showed their true corporate stance on the unfortunate problem. They have broadened the scope of the coverage, within the years and models affected, and they are due a well earned thumbs up for this effort to stand behind what I still believe is the best product on the market.
This seems affect mostly Avalon, Camry, Sienna, Highlander, Celica and most Lexus 300/RX series models with the model years after 1997 thru 2001. Toyota made a change in the engine design that actually attributed to the problem.
My biggest question is do I qualify? Here are the guidelines Toyota is using to establish the engines that are prone to having the sludge (gel) condition:
Camry 4 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 7/01
Camry 6 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 7/01
Solara 4 cyl. Produced 6/98 - 5/01
Solara 6 cyl. Produced 6/98 - 5/01
Sienna 6 cyl. Produced 7/97 - 5/01
Avalon 6 cyl. Produced 7/96 - 5/01
Celica 4 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 4/99
Highlander 6 cyl. Produced 11/00 - 7/01
The actual cause of the problem is an inability of the engine's crankcase ventilation system (PCV) to move the normal gases from the engine. When these gases stay longer in an hot engine it allows deposits to form on the metal parts of the engine. When enough deposits are present "Sludge" is formed. In my opinion the reduced flow of the PCV is related to the vehicle emissions. This presents a problem since to correct it may require Toyota to recertify the engines, come up with a solution acceptable to the EPA and then they still have to repair or assist in repairing the affected engines. The costs would be staggering but ignoring the problem, in so many of their best selling vehicles, may be worse in the long run. In the various articles I've listed below, if you want, you will learn more about the cause an effect."
http://yotarepair.com/Automotive_News.html
Automotive News / February 08, 2002
LOS ANGELES - In September 1999, Maggie Alemany, a 47-year-old medical transcriptionist, drove off the lot of Kendall Toyota in Miami with a new 2000 Toyota Sienna minivan equipped with a 3.0-liter V-6.
Having leased two Previas previously, Alemany says she felt comfortable with Toyota and confident of its quality. But just over a year and 29,000 miles later, she took the Sienna back to Kendall for service because the oil indicator light stayed illuminated.
That's when Alemany got yanked out of her Toyota comfort zone.
"When I got there," she recalled in a telephone interview last week, "they told me I needed a new engine and that they wouldn't pay for it."
Kendall Toyota quoted the repair at $8,000.
Like more than 3,000 other owners who have complained to Toyota about vehicles equipped with two of the automaker's core engine families - the 1MZ V-6 and 5SFE in line 4 - Alemany suddenly found herself at loggerheads with a company she had long associated with high quality and caring customer service.
Her engine was choking on a buildup of sludge, oxidized oil in the form of mucky goo that can seize up an engine. But because the problem can be caused from failure to change the oil regularly, Toyota steadfastly has refused to cover it under its five-year/60,000-mile powertrain warranty - even when evidence of regular maintenance has been furnished, as it was in Alemany's case.
Her Sienna has been parked in her front yard, undriveable, for the past year while she argued unsuccessfully with Toyota over responsibility for the problem.
That part of her ordeal appears to be over, though.
New repair policy
In a letter sent last week to more than
3.3 million owners of vehicles equipped with the two engines, Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. says it will pay repair costs for sludge damage in cases where customers can provide proof of "reasonable efforts" to maintain the vehicle.
The so-called special policy adjustment, requiring proof of only one oil change in a year, is good for one year. At the same time, though, the U.S. sales arm refused to veer from its position that negligent owners, not the product, are the source of the problem.
"We're not aware of any cases of oil gelling in properly maintained engines," said Bob Daly, general manager of Toyota Customer Services, in a press release that admonishes owners to maintain their vehicles properly.
"Toyota understands that customers can sometimes be confused about how to properly maintain their vehicles. We're confident that this program will remind customers of their responsibility as well as reassure those who have had regular oil changes that they have nothing to be concerned about."
Toyota and Lexus owners manuals stipulate oil changes every 7,500 miles or six months, whichever comes first, under normal driving conditions, and 5,000 miles or four months under severe driving conditions.
But to Alemany and thousands of other complainants who have vented on the Internet, to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, to lawyers, to radio talk show hosts - and to Toyota - the company's stance is the worst kind of distortion. In the view of these angry owners and some experts, the problem stems from design or quality flaws in some of the 3.3 million engines produced between 1996 and 2001.
Alemany said she showed her dealer oil change receipts from Jiffy Lube showing that she had changed the oil in the Sienna regularly.
"I might not have done oil changes every 4,000 miles," she said. "I have some at 4,000 and some at 6,000 - but I have had oil changes. But they wouldn't accept my Jiffy Lube receipts."
Although it's not clear why the two Toyota engines are so susceptible to sludge buildup, some independent experts say the concentration of complaints within two engines and a narrow time band points to either a design flaw or a quality defect.
Larry Perry, an A.S.E.-Certified Master Technician,repair-shop owner and host of a radio talk show in Orlando, Fla., says he has discovered an apparent design flaw in 3.0-liter V-6s produced between 1999 and 2001. He says he sees a disproportionate number of the engines coming through his shop on 1999 and 2000 Siennas.
"We believe Toyota reduced the size of cooling passages to the cylinder heads in those engines in order to increase combustion temperatures for more of a complete burn to reduce exhaust emissions," Perry said.
Excessive heat makes oil more susceptible to sludge. Perry says he has measured cylinder-head temperatures as high as 260 degrees in those engines - 30 degrees higher than in earlier models.
Perry also points out that this engine series uses a lifter bucket instead of a rocker arm to open and close the valves.
"The lifter sits in the head and gets sludge and debris compacted up underneath it. So when it gets compacted by the camshaft, it's squeezing oil into the combustion chambers," he said.
In this case, he said, the solution is to use only 100 percent synthetic motor oil.
Another Toyota Sienna owner, who declined to be identified, said an analysis of her oil by Valvoline Co. in Lexington, Ky., found traces of chemical glycol - pointing to the likelihood of a leaky head gasket, allowing coolant into the engine chamber.
That also would raise engine temperatures, leading to sludge buildup.
Last week, Toyota said that its policy change is not an admission that there is any defect in the engines. Rather, the company says, it is an attempt to calm an inordinately large number of concerns about sludge while encouraging customers to maintain their vehicles properly.
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