[nine_one_4]

-------

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: This broadcast commissioned a national, comprehensive poll on
illegal immigration, border security and the legislation now being
debated in Washington. We did so because we felt if we're going to talk
about comprehensive immigration reform, well we should have the
definitive comprehensive national poll. And we went about it seriously
and seeking those definitive answers from you and all of our fellow
citizens across the country.

Asked who they believe would do a better job of securing this nation's
borders, an interesting split. Thirty-five percent of those surveyed
said congressional Democrats, 31 percent said Republicans. Unsure doing
just a little better.

But nearly two-thirds are not confident that Congress and the pass
will, this term, pass comprehensive immigration reform. Only one in 10
expressed their feelings as very confident. And we should point out,
this poll had over 1,000 respondents.

Concerning enforcement measures, more than three-quarters of Americans
surveyed in this poll say there should be more border patrol and more
federal law enforcement agents on the border with Mexico to stem the
tide of illegal immigration. And six in 10 Americans want stiff fines
imposed on employers who hire illegal aliens.

More than half want to send national guard troops to the border with
Mexico. And 45 percent agree with building a fence along the border
with Mexico, that's within -- it's about an even split within just about
the margin of error.

Forty percent want employers who hire illegal aliens to go to jail.
And fully two-thirds of Americans surveyed agree with deportation of
illegal aliens -- again, two-thirds. A quarter disagree. Sixty-seven
percent of those surveyed would like to see the number of illegal aliens
in this country decline. And fully 26 percent say the numbers should
remain the same while two percent want to increase the number of illegals.

Robert Rector joins me now from the Heritage Foundation. George
Grayson, professor at William and Mary College and one of the nation's
leading analysts of Mexico's political system. And Barry Chiswick,
economics professor at the University of Chicago. He joins us as well.
Good to have you all here.

Professor Grayson, let me start with you. You say this legislation the
Senate just passed will actually benefit Americans less than the illegal
aliens who would receive amnesty.

GEORGE GRAYSON, PROFESSOR, WILLIAM & MARY COLLEGE: Yes, I think one of
the ironies is, Lou, that it will make some Americans second-class
citizens. And excuse my referring to notes here, but I want to be
concise.

For example, if a guest worker alleges that he has been terminated
without just cause, then he can have an arbitration hearing, which is
paid for by U.S. taxpayers and possibly get his job back. If an
American worker, who happens to lose his job, wants to contest the
firing, he has little grounds to stand on because he's hired at will.

DOBBS: Professor Chiswick, you have said -- one of the things that's
happening in this country is people won't speak directly about numbers.
You, Robert Rector are certainly the exceptions, Professor Grayson.
What is the impact of illegal immigration on this country? Can you tell
us, professor?

BARRY CHISWICK, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: The impact is quite
substantial. And probably the most significant impact on the labor
market is that it reduces the employment opportunities and earnings of
low-skilled workers who are citizens of the United States. And this is
something that I think is unfortunate that there's too little public
attention focused on this.

DOBBS: Now you testified to this before the Senate Judiciary
Committee, along with a number of your colleagues and I didn't hear
anybody sitting on that committee seem even remotely interested in what
you were saying. Is that unfair of me?

CHISWICK: Well, I think you're on the mark in what you said. I think
the people without a voice in this country are the Americans who have
low levels of skill, who are competing in the labor market with others
who are immigrants and native born, and they seem to lack a political voice.

DOBBS: I will tell you categorically I think the middle class and
those who aspire to it in this country, professor, are the least
represented group in all of Washington D.C. by either Democrats or
Republicans, and if you're a Republican and a Democrat and you disagree
with me, tough, because I absolutely believe it. What do you think,
professor?

CHISWICK: Well, I think that's consistent with what's going on
regarding this debate on immigration.

DOBBS: Let me talk to...

CHISWICK: So I think you're right on the mark.

DOBBS: ... Thank you. I'll take that University of Chicago professor
every time. Robert Rector, you singlehandedly with your research got
them to roll back the number of by a lousy 40 million. They were only
concerned about 40 million immigrants who could have come into this
country during a two decade period. They rolled that back to 66 million
thanks to your research. Are these people out of their minds?

ROBERT RECTOR, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: I think that every time we do
immigration, what we do is we do it completely against the will of the
American people. The American people by a ratio of about 4-1 want less
immigration, not more. But here we have a bill that grants amnesty and
citizenship to every illegal, just about and then on top of that, it's
going to double legal immigration. And mainly the people coming in are
going to be people -- high school dropouts, who tend to have children
without being married. We are vastly expanding the welfare state.

DOBBS: We should point out, though, as we understand them to be
American citizens, one out of three children born in this country today
is born out of wedlock.

RECTOR: .

DOBBS: And I believe in seven states, the number is more than 40
percent. So we have plenty of those problems before we import them.

RECTOR: We already have a vast welfare system. We spend close to $600
billion a year. What we're doing now is importing a vast new welfare
clientele from Central America. And we simply can't afford to do that.
That's what this bill does.