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Originally posted by JanusCole
That's kind of harsh, don't ya think? I can only speak about catholicism. And in the catholic view, it is fully acknowledged that everyone is a sinner and nobody *actually* lives up to the perfect ideal. You get credit (in the form of forgiveness) for trying your best. Granted, some act as though they are perfect and can judge others. But on the whole, I think most catholics (and probably most other Christians) understand the whole "hate the sin but love the sinner" thing.
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Thanks Janus; you clearly understand the dynamic far better than most. This thread is, once again, displaying the depth of miss-understanding among non-Christians of the most basic tenets of Christianity. Of course "...Christians are always saying one thing but practicing another...". Christians, more than anyone else, recognize that nature in themselves. The acknowledge it to a greater degree than anyone on the "outside" will ever understand.
Quote:
Originally posted by Rodeo
Well, there's lots of ways to deal with that other than the Faustian bargain Jeff describes. Voting for phonies and fakes just stinks of moral and societal decay. No good can possibly come of it.
Without getting too complicated, I think the solution is twofold:
1. Stop demonizing "the left." They do not "undermine Christian values" or make fun of them publicly." If I believe, for instance, that homosexuality is an acceptable moral behavior (and I do), that does not mean that I am making fun of people that feel differently.
2. The second point is related to the first. As best I can tell, Christ had no feelings one way or the other on gay marriage or flag burning or same sex adoption. And the bible never mentions abortion. These issues involve morality, but they should not implicate this crazy religion/politics mix we have today. That the "Christian Conservatives" have co-opted these issues for themselves, and mixed them with politics, is a source of great weakness for our country. They should be separated.
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In an ideal world, my "Faustian bargain" would be unnecessary. Pragmatically speaking, in today's two party system, it is. Would that we will someday manage to unseat these two corrupt parties; until then, we are stuck voting what each of us perceives as the lesser of two evils.
Rodeo, I'm affraid it stands as an indisputible fact that many on the left, many of its most vocal spokespersons, do make fun of whom they perceive to be somewhat dim or unenlightend for believing the Christian "fairy tale". Hell, it happens right here, in our little microcosm of the world. Maybe you do not personally (and for that I commend you) but the left certainly does as a whole. And they do work tirelessly to undermine Christian values. The pro-gay marriage proponents, pro-abortion proponents, and others are diametrically opposed to Christian values. Being on the outside looking in you may not feel that way. Christians on the inside looking out, however, do feel that way. It has been one of the greater miss-calculations of the Left to discount this (as you have here).
Christ most certainly does have feelings about homosexuality. One cannot read The Bible and escape that fact. No, The Bible does not specifically mention gay marriage. Nor does it mention abortion. It does not have to. God's position comes through loud and clear on both issues for anyone who has seriously studied and contemplated His message. The lawyer in you make not see the specific references; the rest of us don't have to.