[fastpat]

My worst case was when I paid list price on my, then, new 1972 Nissan 240Z, which were waiting list items. The dealer I bought from, who I later met socially, never sold above list as a matter of business.

I've never paid list again, usually significantly lower than list. Buy from a dealer that will sell you the car for a good price, go ooutside the SF Bay area, even as far as Redding, Paso Robles, SLO, or other area. There is no shortage of dealers that want to sell you a car.