[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by cairns

I don't think you understand- I did not mock your vehicle. You comment that I don't have [a] clue mocked my initial response.

As I said therein- I wouldn't buy one but have one friend who likes his and another who doesn't. I also stated that given the amount of discounts one can receive on new ones (tens of thousands) they are certainly worth looking it. That's hardly mocking them. My negative remarks were harsh but were also prefaced with one very important provisio- IMO or In my opinion.

I'm not down on Cayenne's per se. I'm glad Porsche built them. But Porsche could have made them a great SUV and a great PORSCHE. In my opinion they did neither- even after starting with a clean sheet of paper. And while you "don't buy Japanese" (maybe you are prone to the prejudice that you accuse me of?) and don't buy your cars for gadgets a lot of people do care about more aspects of a vehicle than 60 to 130 acceleration times- especially in an SUV. They want an Ipod connection or a navigation system that's at least the equal of a $500 Tom Tom or seats that fold down without having to remove the headrests. How fast it accelerates from 60 to 130 is not very important in a vehicle primarily used fo towing, taking the family on vacation or toting the soccer team to practice. Of course performance is important but be real- what sane person wants to be doing 130 in their SUV on public highways in crowded metropolitan areas? That's going to put you in jail- providing you don't kill yourself or others first.

As for reliability and resale value- here's another opinion that seems to be pretty middle of the road (not bad not great but fairly honest IMO- from "Canadian Driver"):

"According to Consumer Reports, the Cayenne has a similar spotty reliability record as other recent Porsche models (apparently, an older 911 is a very safe bet, but that's a story for another day); as with other high-end German cars, its electrical system components seem to let it down.

According to posts in the Cayenne forum at Rennlist.com (forums.rennlist.com), ignition coils appear to be a frequent trouble spot (a potentially expensive fix, as there are as many as eight of them - one for each cylinder), as are transmission/powertrain control modules. Also, a couple of owners mention having to have the air compressor that keeps the air suspension aloft replaced, but it's hard to say how common this issue actually is. A couple of minor problems include a rear hatch that won't stay open on its own due to weak hydraulic struts, and wipers that chatter.

While Internet forums are hardly a scientific way to find out if a vehicle is reliable or not, I'd recommend spending some time in the Cayenne forums listed at the end of this article in order to get a good idea of what things to look out for. These threads - one at Roadfly.org and another at Rennlist.com - are good places to start.

Despite the cachet of the Porsche brand, the Cayenne's resale values aren't that strong: a 2003 model is currently worth about half what it cost new, according to Canadian Red Book, a rate of depreciation similar to that of a Kia Sorento from the same year. That doesn't make a used Cayenne particularly affordable, however. Values range from a little more than $41,000 for a base 2003 model to a high of $128,700 for a 2006 Cayenne Turbo S. Canadian Red Book's $59,200 retail price for a 2005 non-turbo Cayenne S seems like a decent deal for a quick SUV; go back to 2004 and Red Book suggests you should be able to find the same model for about $48,000.

The Cayenne is a capable vehicle and no doubt an attractive proposition for drivers looking for something with the practicality of an SUV with the performance of a Porsche. Purchasing one through Porsche's certified pre-owned program would be wise, as would looking for a Cayenne with some of the original factory warranty left. In any event, a used Cayenne should be a rewarding vehicle to own if you shop wisely and go into the deal prepared for pricey maintenance and repair costs."

And while there are certainly other sources that rave about the Cayenne you probably don't want to know that Car Magazine (one of my favorites- from the UK and highly respected) called the Cayenne Turbo "utterly pointless" and found the BMW X5 to have handling superior to the Cayenne S.

So that's kind of it on the subject for me- but I do have a question- you alluded to friends driving Cayennes in DEs. Can you name the PCA region in which that occured? I understand that PCA National has specifically disallowed them- due to their mass and safety and liability concerns. I know our region and all the sister regions I'm familiar with (including NNJR) won't allow them.

I guess we see things differently, although you feel your comments weren't derogatory and justified by adding IMO. I felt they were unwarranted conjecture based solely on opinion (ie clueless). So do your comments educate or just slam the cayenne because of dislike? Yes, this is a public forum and yes any argument is a loosing one, but we are here to discuss and not ridicule based on conjecture which is what you were doing (read your own words).

You say you know NNJR won't allow the Cayenne at DE events? Again conjecture. We allow the Cayenne I can point out several events with Cayenne's. Maybe you should talk to our track chair or Mr. Tremper about that.

I happen to be quite active on rennlist and the Cayenne forum and what you are discussing are more isolated occurrences. A few negative threads you seem to highlight. Most of which are more isolated than common. There are split opinions about the cayenne I agree with LTC leading the band wagon about its issues. He had an early 03 (which he claimed he never owned). Yes the early 03 cars had issues after all it was something completely new and different for Porsche. Look back in history and you will see this is not the first time Porsche had issues with new concepts. This is known as a learning curve.

I have numerous friends that own Cayenne's and not a one has had any major issues. I can point out problems with any manufacturer's quality today. As we add more crap onto our cars there is more to go wrong. Like I said if I wanted the Cayenne to be a gadget mobile or like every other product I wouldn't have purchased it. If that is what you look for in a car than that is up to you. I guess I drive older Porsche's because I don't want all the aids and gimmicks. I was in a 997 GT3 the other day and it had Nav???? I can't understand why anyone would want Nav in a GT3 and even more so why would you buy a GT3 to drive on the street. It makes an awful street car but a hell of a great track car. Do you need the Nav to tell you to brake and turn right in 500 yards at the Glen LOL. Oh and yes the Nav in the Gt3 was just as poor as the one in the CT.

What confuses me is you talk about the Cayenne in terms that you feel are specific to Porsche when almost every other manufacturer does the same thing or has similar issues.

My mother just purchased an 08 MB E350 far better car than her previous 04 E500 which was in the shop more than on the road. Resale on the MB was no better than a Cayenne or any other vehicle. She received a nice incentive and price reduction to buy the new car. Look at the new BMW 7 series now lets talk about serious depreciation and worse what that did to the values of the previous 7 series that BMW had to purchase back from me because of so many problems. Not to mention an overly complicated confusing electronics system that is more trouble than it is worth. I constantly get incentive mailers from BMW to buy a new 08 6 or 7 series car. After owning many BMW's I will never own another unless it is an older CSI or M1. How about anyone who purchased a 00 or 01 996. My B-in-law purchased a new 01 for nearly $90k sold it recently after 2 years on the market for $32k with 13k miles mint condition. Could not get a buyer. My new 08 Avalanche has the same throttle response issue as some Cayenne owners have complained about with the Drive by wire throttle. In fact it is far worse in the Chevy then those I have witnessed in the Porsche, yet why when Porsche has this issue they are a bunch of F'ups. I can go on and on about other cars with far worse resale value or issues than the Cayenne. So why is the Cayenne being mocked for something that most every other new vehicle suffers from? Oh, thats right Porsche is not allowed to make mistakes.

I will say that what you said in your more recent posts comes across more informative with far less conjecture and in some ways helpful to those posting the question. Your initial response was no less an attack towards something I happen to appreciate, than my response to you saying your response was clueless. I am not trying to be the defender of the Marque although I do get annoyed and will call out when opinions are expressed as fact and accuracy is no longer part of the picture.

I too recommend anyone interested in the Cayenne to read other forums and test drive the car, evaluate its potential and determine if it is the vehicle for you. The Cayenne is a great vehicle IMO and Porsche can make improvements but I have tried the BMW's the MB's the RR etc, etc and IMO they can't hold a candle no matter what Porsche & 911 World says. (which I do read and chuckle at, the English can be a bit quirky, sorry)

Not trying to make enemies but I think we understand each other a little better now. Lets let people make up their own minds instead of bashing something and putting a bad taste in their mouth..