Originally Posted by javadog
Well, sooner or later everybody seems to get sucked into an internet argument. What fun. For those of you with stale popcorn, feel free to skip this post.
RPKESQ, your comments are in quotes. We begin...
"If you think Rolex is the best, go for it."
Actually, I don't think they are the best, nor did I ever state that in any of my posts. That wasn't my point. In fact, I own more watches made by other manufacturers than Rolex.
"I have no vested interest in how you spend your money; or how you want to “show that you achieved “some level status or success (by all means put 20” chrome rims on your Porsche)"
I don't feel a need to show anybody my status. See anything at the bottom of my posts indicating to other what cars I own? Compare that to other signatures on this board. For the record, every car I own has stock wheels.
"If you want to really learn about things, instead of learning dogma that is."
You presume a lot here. Ever met me?
"Interior finish is very important. How is your Porsche engine finished internally?"
Well, none of my Porsche engines are finished at all internally, apart from the bearing surfaces. They're full of casting flash, unmachined surfaces and other ugly sights. Come visit me sometime, I'll show you one. I have several apart at the moment.
"Do you not enjoy seeing a finely made part? Is that not some of the enjoyment we obtain from our cars? I know I greatly enjoy seeing and feeling the fit and finish of beautifully crafted objects. It is the premier sign of proper hand craftsmanship, whether you look at it or not."
That was my point about the Patek. Can't see a thing....I'm sure it's nice though...
"No watch is "waterproof", but higher levels of pressure indicate the amount of misuse, lack of care, exposure to solvents, etc., and still be able to keep dirt and moisture out. After all if you only drive 70mph why buy a car cabable of 190mph? Really have you thought any of this out?"
Sure. Given my engineering background, that's easy. Next question, please.
"Your comments about my understanding of Rolex are demonstrably incorrect. Rolex uses automation to assemble most of the watches. Just look at the production figures, they produce more than any other mechanical Swiss maker (by several orders of magnitude, yet have the fewest certified watch makers by percentage of production (this information can be verified by Swiss employment figures, look it up). How in hell do you think that works if they are hand building them?"
My problem with your comments about Rolex stem from the fact that you are stating some things that aren't true. Other things you say are misleading to people that are new to watches. I won't argue that many other manufacturers produce fewer watches per employee each year. I also understand that Rolex dosn't do much hand finishing or cosmetic decoration on the parts they don't show us. Again, that's not the business they are in and that doesn't mean the watches are better or worse, except to watch snobs.
Rolex employs 6,000 people. I suppose they are all writing ad copy.
"As far as having high number of patents, try comparing that number to several other Swiss and German manufactories’ number of patents (oh dear, more real research instead of dogma). Big hint number one. Most of Rolex’s patents (over 85% in the last 30 years) are concerning automated production. Did you know that?
No they are not mostly about automation. Yes, I have a list of them. Send me postage and I'll mail you a copy. I am also aware of the innovations made by other companies but that wasn't germane to the discussion at hand. Start another thread if you want to talk about them.
"And no, it is not on their web site! Humorous comments about how seemingly every other watch you own has let you down except for the almighty Rolex smacks of Rolex dogma."
Glad you got the humour. Just pointing out that having a prestigious name in the watch biz is by no means a guarantee of quality. And yes, none of my Rolexes have ever screwed up. Maybe I'm just lucky. Maybe that's relevant to Bob's quest for advice.
"How about really doing the same for other brands? Or is the Rolex dogma you’ve bought into completely eliminated the ability to do real research? How about following your own advice? “I encourage anybody with an interest in watches to read a few books, subscribe to a few magazines to keep current on new things”. If you did this, instead of sucking beers while watching Rolex propaganda, you too, might learn something. How about suggesting:
The Swiss Watchmaking Year (annual)
International Watch
Chronos (not the best, but sometimes interesting)
Horology.com (a wealth of information)"
I have in excess of 4,000 books in my library, and untold thousands of magazines. Yes, I have read them. You might say I'm well informed on many subjects, although an expert in only one or two. (Not watches, by the way.) I have bought every significant book available in this country on watches, for the last thirty years. The magazines too, inluding some you don't mention. I get the free in-house one that some of the manufacturers offer to their customers. I collect watch brochures. I surf the usual watch-geek forums, too. Did I miss anything?
"In conclusion, Rolex has achieved the highest level of commercial success by developing the highest level of automated production and finishing of any Swiss mechanical watch producer, combined with the largest advertising budget. They have maximized their profits at the expense of variety, creativity and hand craftsmanship. They have managed to do exactly what most here complain that Porsche did after the 993."
Ah, more of your opinions. Well, if you are old enough, you'll remember that the 356 owners thought the new 911 was a crap car when it was introduced. Sorry if the air-cooled crowd hates the waterpumpers when they go flying past....Anyway, maybe what makes Rolex the big boy of the watch world is that they give people what they want. Right, wrong or indifferent, that's what makes a company a success. They are a business, you know.
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