[MotoSook]

As an engineer who's been in operations, manufacturing, consulting and then back to operations again, I'd say you all have valid points. There is probably no shortage of engineers coming out of school, and there is no shortage of engineers in the work force; however, quality engineers are hard to find.

There are some bright stars in manufacturing, but I think the environment stifles some of the engineers and ultimately makes them less marketable to other fields. Or maybe they just weren't that bright to begin with.

In operations, there isn't a whole lot of requirements that lead to creative thinking. That is not to say there aren't creative engineers in operations, just that the environment provides less opportunities to develop the engineer.

In consulting, there are all kinds. I've worked with 30 year+ engineers that don't seem to want to be creative or broaden their skill set. Some are engineers or senior engineers until they retire, content with just getting a pay check. Creative thinkers are few and they end up doing the bulk of the work, while the slackers drift along. There are engineers that are not engineers at all, but have the skills to move up in their career with good BS'ing skills.

I've worked with fresh out of college engineers who have more potential than some 20+ yr engineers. It doesn't take them long to out shine the slackers.

An engineering degree doesn't make one an engineer. Unfortunately, companies can't afford to hire and fire the average or mediocre engineers on a monthly basis, so a lot of engineers get to go along for the ride while the stars carry the company.

One big problem that may be affecting all engineering disciplines is the lack of training and commitment (of resources) to train new engineers. There is a large gap in knowledge between the experienced engineers in any industry and the younger engineering work force. The late 80's and 90's saw a large move from a learning-working environment to a lean-"get it done" environment that relied heavily on the experienced work force. As a result there are less trained or skilled engineers to draw from.

The huge problem facing America in engineering, is the retiring baby boomers. There will be a shortage of good, trained and quality engineers to fill the spots left by the baby boomers thanks to the lean business practices of the last 15 years. That is not to say there aren't enough engineers in the field, but the really good engineers that can back fill the void will be difficult to fine.

Some companies know this. And they are agressively looking to hire younger engineers to bring up to speed in the next 5 years or so.

For the longest time, I tried to get my old company to hire young engineers to delegate some of my work to, but they couldn't afford (nor had the right philosophy) to bring on young engineers and train them. I got fed up with trying to manage multiple clients/projects and doing all the engineering work. They finally hired a couple of young kids, but it was too late. I trained a couple of them for several months, one a 2-3 yr former Detroit engineer and the other a fresh out of college kid. Guess who was the shining star?

The fresh out of college kid just soaked everything up, and was willing to work long hours. His dedication to learning and getting the job done hadn't been snuffed by some other less demanding environment. The Detroit kid was still thinking "Detroit" office practices.

After several months of training the kids on my own, without any formal request or program by the company, I finally had it. The company was actually clueless and sometimes resistant to me training the kids. All the while the work kept piling up. I finally looked elsewhere...and left.

Now the fresh out of college kid is doing some of what I was doing for the company. Pretty sad when a kid with less than 1 year of experience is the go to guy. The kid is good, but what's a consulting company thinking when they have to rely on a new kid.....there are other "senior engineers" on staff, but they are hardly worth their pay. In the last year, that company has loss a handful of engineers and managers to other companys or other industries. Meanwhile they promote and give raises to those who are still there to keep them there. Talk about rewarding mediocrity. The last note I received from a manager still with the company...they weren't worried about things. They had problems hiring quality experienced engineers before....now they aren't worried?

So although there are engineers out there, I really think the market is going to suffer in the next 5-10 years for good engineers. The kind of engineering work place I imagined when I was in high school nearly two decades ago is not going to be there for the engineering students of today. No more groups of engineers huddling over a desk or a computer brainstorming and learning from each other on a routine basis. Companies can't afford to do business that way anymore. If there is more than one engineering doing a task, it's not going to be efficient. Efficiency (with a capital $) has a price...a less knowledgeable work force with a more centralize knowledge base. A more centralize knowledge base creates a protective enviroment (in an already competitive enviroment) with less sharing of knowledge...a more centralized knowledge base creates "the few" that know and the few that can be hired.

With competition (within and without) in the already tight engineering market, I think there will be troubles for employers down the road.