Quote:
Originally Posted by SLO-BOB
You two (not Todd) are very good at talking in circles. Like I said - I agree. You're right. Now tell me your solution. You've talked the talk, now tell us all about the walk.
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If you are referring to me, perhaps you need to re-read every one of my posts on this subject. I'm also not sure what circular logic you are claiming. I have stated facts which you have claimed are not facts along with impugning my ability to observe/state facts vs opinions - smacks of similarities (of course I also don't understand that concept either), to those who claim the holocaust did not happen/the facts aren't really there.
Have there been demands for a "solution"? What I have sought (and you and others have resisted) is the simple realization that inequities have existed, and continue to be present. Kind of like any twelve step program - first you have to admit there is a problem. Very much the same as Todd's posts, hence I am puzzled why you seek to separate them.
If you truly believe that these inequities have been present and continue to be insidious and pervasive, take a look around and ask yourself just how much of your interactions with someone short vs tall, obese vs thin, man vs woman, young vs old, and yes even white vs anything else are colored by the little "accepted" assumptions about that "class" of person. You know, "fat"=lazy, tall=leader (look up the voting history of the US in presidential elections since tv started) etc.
Maybe you'll then understand why some people want "so much" even if it doesn't seem fair to you (and may not be right either). Walk a mile in their shoes even if it is a mental exercise. And financially; I don't know your position on reparations for Japanese Americans (though I could hazard a guess) from WWII or German Jews or slaves, but just imagine that you had 1000 acres of farmland or a great business that got taken away by people who didn't like your hair color or eyes. That is a huge generationally important set of lost assets. That is why there is so much bitterness out there by these folks.
Yes, some people overcome their circumstances all the time, and it is easy to hold them up to say "look it can be done", but it is simplistic to believe that because one person can achieve success it translates to anybody in that situation. It is the societal anecdote, and much like science vs anecdote in health care, where you can always find one person who thinks a given treatment made him/her better (whether or not it killed 300 others), it is in-valid.
And that's it. Who knows, maybe if you do enough investigation and thinking you'll choose to change something yourself. Maybe, even believe that not everyone born in the inner city can bootstrap themselves to the CEO of Coca cola.