[DARISC]

Originally Posted by azasadny

Iraq was "broken" long before we got there and will be long after we leave....

That's historical fact. And, while we went into Afghanistan for all the right reasons, with international support, we've blunderingly made an unconscionable mess of things there as well. Kabul notwithstanding, the Afghani govt. buildings in the cities are occupied not by politicians the citizens can trust and rely on, but rather thugs and drug lords that they are terrified of, unwittingly put there provisionally by our govt. - not being "un-American" here, just check it out for yourself. The Taliban is once again on the rise and the tribal warlords are still in control of that country if you look beyond Karzai's small bastion of democratic govt. and those warlords want us out of Afghanistan every bit as much as they wanted the Russians out.

When we are forced to redouble our efforts there, Afghanistan will again be in the spotlight and it will be painfully apparent that we have a perhaps an even more serious problem there than we have in Iraq.

I'm sickened by the loss of so many lives for people who have no respect for human lives or sacrifices...

And I as well; it's the only reason I can't refrain from posting on threads here which praise our military forays, draped in patriotic banners proclaiming "My country, right or wrong" (I recall you mentioned that old bumper sticker in one of your earlier posts).

Originally Posted by Halm

Art, I would be surprised if there is anyone that disagrees with your statement.

Too often the discussion is about how we got there. That is history and can't be changed. What we need is a thoughtful, thorough discussion of how we get out. There was no free oil for going in, and there is no free lunch for coming out. There are serious consequences no matter what we do. They need to be vetted.

Precisely.

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

The issue at hand now is that the surge was designed to buy time for the Iraqi government to get its act together and make the tough decisions necessary to lead their country.

It is clear to me now that the Iraqi government has a vested interest(s) in keeping factions within Iraq at odds with each other because it is both weak and corrupt. In short, they are just playing us. It's focus on strengthening ties with Iran is also troubling. It's a sad statement that Cheney must secretly fly in under cover of night and be extremely limited in his movements while Ahmadinejad is treated like royalty and walks freely among the people, the country.

no good can come of this.

Well said.....you commie liberal pinko socialist pig!

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