Quote:
Originally Posted by kuehl
Whether you are using R12, R134a or whatever, if you have a leak you have a leak and the leakage rate does not usually stay static. Leakage rates are related to pressure and time, so the more you use it the more you lose it.
You can still buy the stuff.
However it is still not on the EPA's approved or disapproved list (SNAP) of alternative refrigerants, and probably will never be if the manufacturer continues to market the product as they have (simply rationalize that it does not have to be submitted to the EPA for review as it does not need to be; can you say "loophole"). But at least the manufacturer is forthcoming (finally) about the basis for the concerns, as quoted from the mfg's website:
Enviro-Safe Refrigerant may be used to replace HFC 134a and R12 substitutes in the majority of states within the United States. Enviro-Safe advises that you refer to your local, state and federal laws governing the sale and use of any refrigerant.
If their marketing was really up to par they would publish a list of the states; imagine buying the stuff and installing, and then finding out your local governing body says "no".
At least the manufacturer is acknowledging the key concern here, quoted from their site: Enviro-Safe™ Refrigerant is flammable to an open flame or spark and is rated as a Flammable Gas 2. This means there is a moderate chance of fire or flame. However, flammable products are used every day within the household, business and in automobiles.
I like the last statement. "Hey bartender. Pour me another. I have a long drive home".
Yeah. I can see us all pumping in some more flammables, especially in cars that date back 30 years, having refrigerant hoses that leak, hoses running adjacent to fan motors that have been known to fry on their own or alongside of high voltage plug wires or in engine compartments with aged wiring.
"YOW. BARTENDER, WHERE'S MY DRINK?"
"Here you go Sonny. Enjoy":
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Love this picture. The only one time anyone has taken of a photo of what was allegedly a car fire due specifically to a refrigerant that was other than 134a or R12. Did you witness this and know the "victim?" I suppose if anyone is risking running refrigerant through any system that has the original 30 year old OEM hoses is taking a chance. Install new hoses and fittings and other components and you will likely be OK.
I suppose riding a motorcycle is also inherently dangerous, but many folks still do... I would imagine that more people were hurt or killed as a pedestrian, than anyone using HC for refrigerant in their car... $6 a can for ES, or $200 for R12, $100 for 134... Tough call!
Under inflated tires cause death too, but too easy to blame the manufacturer instead... Just ask Firestone! Remember the panic Ford Explorer owner's went through a few years ago? All because MORONS were running their cars with severely under inflated tires...
To answer your question Jim... I"ll be removing my A/C system very soon, as my car has evolved into a race car... My front condenser (original 23 year old) has developed a leak, as well as my compressor (original 23 year old) is spitting oil... This just recently has happened while beating my car to death on the track for the last 2 years. For the little time I drive it during the summer, I'm not going to repair it. While the system was still functioning for the last 2 years, it worked very well with ES. JoeAksa is the man to ask! He suggested I try it, and I had great results. Ask the guy who lives in the hottest part of the country, IMHO! I think Joe runs ES in his Jag too with very excellent results in the 120* AZ summer!! The results Joe has had should alleviate your fears!
I have heard others say that many of the HC products available aren't quite as good as ES, including my Porsche mechanic.
I've got a couple of extra cans if you want to try it!
