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Originally Posted by john70t
Is the arguement "global warming doesn't exist", or is the arguement "global warming exists but isn't caused by humans"?
You can't argue both, now.
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I think everyone can and will acknowledge that "climate change" exists.
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When offering scientific data(which as we all know is bunk) as evidence of proof, a single point/year taken from a range over a long timeline is insufficient.
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True.
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Kurt's graph shows a reduction of ice by almost half, within a sort 30 years.
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30 years is almost 0 in geologic time scales.
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That's a huge amount of traditionally unchanging mass gone, and the represent energy absorbed is enormous. This falls far out of spec for the natural yearly freeze-thaw worldwide seasonal cycles.
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"Unchanging mass" over what period of time? "Out of spec" based on what period of time?
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One could argue that in another 30 years it will triple again, which may or may not prove true, but to not aknowledge an immediate massive pattern shift away from the historical range of normality speaks for itself.
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Again, time granularity is an important consideration.
Back to the original point of this thread; there is more ice at the Arctic this year vs. last year and the Antarctic extent is growing, albeit by small amounts. The images posted in the original article showing more ice this year vs. last year in the Arctic are correct (they were from NASA I believe). I'll admit and agree it is almost meaningless by way of the time frame, but so is a snapshot of a hundred or even thousand years or so . . .
Climate change is as real as it ever was. Whether or not humans have anything to do with it is not that big a deal, IMHO. Humans still need to figure out ways to not pollute the planet and ways to create more energy from sustainable and clean sources.
FWIW.
Best,