I think that's more than I needed to know, but appreciate it, I hate to go in blind, I have simple goals, just get it not to be so painful and still be able to hit the gas and brake peddle, never dance and don't care what it looks like. Jim, its not age, all my other joints are just fine, I dropped a big piece of steel on my toe about 13 years ago when I was younger, although now that you mention it my right wrist has been giving me some trouble lately!