[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Souk

Speaking from a professional engineer's prospective, I would not think ahead to a graduate degree until the student has made it passed the bachelor's degree. Sure a master's degree will be nice to have, but in some cases it is unnecessary and can over qualify a candidate for a job. Let's face it, the reason we go to college is to get a job in a profession we want to be in.

Choosing a profession is more important that just going to college and graduating. If one graduates with a degree that is not useful to the real world, one has just wasted 4 or 5 years of life and college tuition. I don't buy this theory that a BA or BS is a stepping stone to a graduate degree. A graduate degree is not necessary to be successful in a professional life. One could argue that the graduate degree was a Plan B after Plan A (the BS or BA) didn't pan out. Just a thought. And if I had to hire a recent grad, whether they had a MS or BS, I would certainly hire the BS grad for less money. MS or BS, that candidate still has to be trained and they still have to learn the industry. A MS is no guaranty that the candidate is more capable of learning more quickly than the BS candidate.

I recently heard a recent grad whine about wasting her years and money on NPR, because she couldn't find a job. (They never did reveal what her degree was in.) NPR did a story about whether it was worth it to go to college in these times. Of course it's worth it; however, if a student is going to spend 4 years and thousands of dollars to get a history or pyschology degree, then expect to fine a well paying job after graduation they have been misled.

I went to school with too many kids whose parents sent them off to college to be educated but failed to informed them that simply having a college degree won't necessary help them find a good job after college. A lot of my friends who got a History, Literature, Pyschology, etc degree ended up going into some job completely unrelated to their field of study....for less money than than those who had a well thought out career goal. They simply went to college for the college experience.

Back to Bill's kid and a potential for a career in engineering...

There was a thread here not to long ago started by a student at the U of Mexico about the state of engineering grads in the US compared to overseas. Basically the number of US engineering grads has not increased at the same rate as the rate in other countries. Even in today's economic conditions, my company is finding it difficult to hire good engineers. I also see a lot of engineers that really aren't any smarter after years of experience than some new grads. Engineering isn't something that you can be great at simply because you have an engineering degree. If Bill's kid is really interested in engineering and has the "knack" for engineering I have no doubt the he will suceed with just a BS from any certified engineering school. MIT is great, but I don't know that it will prepare him for the real world any better than some other school. The connections and the "MIT shine" will open doors, but that's where it stops. If the candidate doesn't have everything else going for him/her, not good hiring manager is going to pay the extra money to bring on an MIT grad over a grad from some smaller less prestigious school.

I had two roommates in college that ultimate went to MIT for graduate degrees. I was content with two BS degrees. Having two BS degrees opened doors, and I am just using one degree. I am certain I'm better off finanacially than they are with their MIT doctorates. So the thought that an MIT degree is going to guaranty success is out of date in today's world.

Bill's kid shows interest in fields that are core disciplines in modern society. It's best to develop that interest and help the kid plan or think about planning a carreer path so that college is the means to an end...a step to achieving the goal of a sucessful carreer. Telling the kid to spend 4 yrs in college to decide if he's going to want to be in CS or engineering is just too modern day American where parents are too quick to keep their kids cuddled with the comfort that mom and dad will always be there.

When your kid leaves home for college, that's when you have to be certain that they have a goal and they will spend the next 4-5 years fighting to achieve that goal while still shielded from the brutal reality of the real world. If they don't they will have to deal with it when they graduate and move back in with mom and dad.

Bill's kid already has great testing scores. The fact that he wants to improve them is great! That's the spirit that will set him apart from the other students. Nuture that spirit and help him set career goals now...not when he's 1/2 way into a 4 yr degree...a degree that may narrow his carreer path. Don't let the degree choose the career....choose the career and then go after the degree to make it easier to get into the career of his choice. Help him learn what his career choices are and then help him learn what that career may be like....if he turns away...then help him choose another....

I agree with some of what you say, and disagree with other parts. The bottom line is that everyone is different, but I will stand by a couple of pieces of my advice and add a few other thoughts.

In general, I think that engineering school is a mistake for many who "want to be an engineer." It is about the most narrow curriculum out there. While completing the degree does indicate a lot about perseverance and problem solving skills, it doesn't say much about other things like aesthetic, social skills, writing ability, design, etc.

There are very few 4 year degrees that are a "waste of time" unless the student makes them such. Some of the most successful people I know have degrees in "useless" areas such as english and philosophy. What they got in college was breadth of knowledge and critical thinking skills. Engineering and science is not the only way to get that - but some people think that is the case.

If someone has always wanted to be an engineer, and only wants to be an engineer, then by all means, get an undergraduate engineering degree and be happy (or not). But if someone is interesting in "engineering" (and many don't even know what it entails) along with other things (the OP mentioned psych I believe), then I think getting a broader degree in physics or math or chemistry is a better idea. That does not shut them out from becoming an engineer.

The whole "moving back with the parents" isn't reserved for the lowly liberal arts grad. That is a product of the student and the parents. If a student is serious about school, they can excel no matter what degree area they pursue. Believing that science and engineering is required for success is narrow thinking.

The reality of today's world is that a person has to learn how to learn. College is needed to teach that along with critical thinking and analysis. Again, those are not strictly limited to the sciences. Most people will change careers multiple times. Following a certain path will shut down some options but open up others. I am a fan of keeping as many paths available when a person is young.