[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Dottore

It may be your situation, but its neither reality nor the truth.

I simply disagree. Respectfully, but strongly.

Originally Posted by Dottore

My student years were extraordinarily challenging and intellectually stimulating, and they opened up an entire universe of ideas—

So were my non college years. Life is extraordinarily challenging, you should try the infantry sometime if you want to be challenged.

Originally Posted by Dottore

The opportunity to study at a good school under good professors is a beautiful thing that will stay with you for life. .

Same thing is true of the military, under a good sergeant and good officers.

Originally Posted by Dottore

That said, there are undoubtedly jobs and careers out there for which a relevant education is not a prerequisite. But even for people contemplating a career in one of those jobs, I'd think you would be mad not to seize the opportunity (if you have it) to get a broader education first.

Yes, why skip out on the "opportunity" to waste $100k or more on totally irrelevant skills. That is money you'll never recover either, because the "charlatan" will be earning for those 4 years and be up 4 years of experience plus tuition plus previous earnings on you before you even send out your first resume.

Because afterall, a man is defined by a piece of paper, not himself.

To me, based on the things i hear when i talk to most young chicks(i love you God), they view it as another 4 years of party/vacation time before they have to really grow up.

Originally Posted by Christien

It took a page and a half, but some people here finally got around to the point that college or university isn't JUST about getting a job.

Think of it like this - you go to a gym to train your body to be strong and healthy. You will gain the ability to, say, lift a certain weight or do a certain type of work, but overall you're gaining a healthy and strong body. This is exactly what university does for your intellect. It doesn't matter what you study, it's the fact that you're strenuously exercising your mind. This is what university will give you that will last with you the rest of your life.

And snipe, add me to the list of people who disagree with you. The world is full of mediocre artists, and I suspect a large part of that mediocrity is lack of knowledge of other arts and the general world around them. I'm not at all suggesting your art is mediocre - I've never seen it, so I couldn't judge. But the best artists have drawn from their world experience. Some of the worst artists, ironically enough, are those that never get out of the university system - it can be a vacuum too.

I suspect the best artists- like the best musicians- have never spent a day in a university.

All the best ones i know, that's the case. I know a lad that gets $50k a pop for airbrushing nightclubs(he's reaaaaally good) all up and down the East coast, he didn't even graduate HS.

Know another fella that does custom work on Lears and such (plus has 2 stores- 1 in philly 1 on the jersey shore), he has a community college degree.

My old art instructor got (in the mid 80s) $10k a pop for his oils, he was just a HS grad.

Honestly, art has nothing to do with math, english, chemistry, nothing. Less than nothing. It has to do with practice, and being around other artists to learn and share techniques.

As far as learning, in the age of the internet, when anyone can go online and learn pretty much anything as long as they're motivated enough to do so, i really don't see any point any more. It doesn't make you more money, it doesn't gain you exclusive knowledge, it does burn a huge hole in your pocket and waste several of your prime earning years though.

To each their own.

It only makes sense if you want to be a doctor, or lawyer, or some other extremely technical field where you cannot BS and stumble your way through the first few months of OJT. For any field where that's possible(which is probably 95% of them), going to college is going to cost you an immense amount of money, far beyond the tuition.

Seriously, my old man makes about $10k net a week (in philly dollars- you could probably double that for you Cali guys) and has never spent a single minute in college. How many college graduates ever make that kind of money in their life?

Originally Posted by Hugh R

M21

To some extent, you're correct about rewards/education. However, take me for example. There are three people who do what I do for my employer, which is motion picture and television production safety. I have a BS in Environmental, Health & Safety, another guy has a BS in Criminal Justice, and the third guy doesn't have a college degree, but he is a certified Emergency Medical Technician. My employer went through a round of layoffs last month, and we were all concerned; none of us got the axe. I THINK, of the three of us, I would have been retained, and one of the others let go, had they decided to cut my department. Why? I'm the only one with an actual science background, while I don't use a lot of my education everyday, I'm the only one of the three of us with any serious math, chemistry, physics, noise, ventilation, etc. background. I also happen to be the only Certified Industrial Hygienist, Registered Environmental Assessor, Certified Hazardous Materials Manager and Qualified Environmental Professional, in the entire industry that is involved in motion picture and television production safety.

The universe of people in that profession happens to be about 20 people in the entire world. I bring great weight to the Industry-Wide Labor-Management Safety Committee, which writes the motion picture and television Safety Bulletins, which are the standard for film production throughout the world. Because of the above education and credentials, I THINK my job is more secure than those of my two colleagues, I could be wrong.

You might be right, but there's also a good chance you'd get the axe last because, simply, you are the best of the 3 and you are the most dedicated, or the boss simply likes you personally the most.

Sometimes it's the "overqualified" guy that goes first- because they command the highest premium.

I don't know your profession at all, so it would be insane for me to try and say whether or not your degree is of real merit. All i know is that in the field i went to school for, and the one i just considered taking some classes in, it would not be.

There is no doubt that someone like an engineer or a lawyer or a doctor definitely needs to go to school because of the extremely technical nature of his field.

But things like MBAs, etc, no. There are plenty of guys making huge scratch in small businesses without any college at all. All that takes is courage, commitment, hard work, guts, and (as always) some good luck.

Honestly of all the qualities needed to become rich in small business, guts is the most important. Last i checked they don't teach guts in college. I assume you got your dose of it in the USMC.