[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Perhaps your vast HD experience has kept you out of the showroom for the past 5 years. The SG and SGCustom have mid controls (not forward like the Softails), comfortable seating and riding position (no "apes" here) and the best all around performance of any HD currently in production. Suspension is not lowered...except perhaps on the low sportster and other low versions of most of their bikes. Oh yes...no 21" front wheel either. I think you're confused.[/B].

I think you are just looking for an argument and either missing or ignoring what I'm saying. What part of this did you miss or ignore?

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

The Super Glide was actually a great bike until they did that to all of the Dynas, with its standard foot position, reasonable handlebars, and resultant great ergonomics.

The "that" to which I was refering was the lowering of the rear end, and yes the Super Glide suffered that same fate. It also lost its second front disc somewhere along the way. And no, I never said it had the 21" front wheel - I did say to stay away from the bikes that do, if one is looking for a serious rider.

Yes, there is a Dyna Low Rider, and a Sportster Low. That is not what I'm refering to when I mention that the entire Dyna range had been lowered some years ago. The Dyna Low Rider has simply been lowered even beyond that, even further compromising its ride. When H-D lowered all of the standard ride height Dynas in the early Twin Cam years, the Super Glide did not escape that fate. Then, when it lost its second front disc, what could have been a viable (albeit heavy and "underpowered") sport tourer became just another Dyna with mid controls and normal handlebars. Cornering clearance and braking are gone, compared to earlier Super Blides.

And no, I have not been absent from the H-D showroom for the last five years. My local dealer - all of five miles away - has a rental program of which I take full advantage. I typically rent two or three (sometimes more) new Harleys that pique my interest every year. I spend a whole day on them, typically rolling up several hundred miles in my own little "road test". It's a great way to keep abreast of what the Motor Company is up to with their new models. In other words, the opinions - and they are still no more than opinions - that I offer here are my own, not those of my favorite magazines' road test staffs.

In the same veign, one of my riding buddies (who owns a brand new FJR, having sold a beautiful '63 Pan to buy it) and I like to rent bikes from a local (Fall City, WA) business called "Mountain to Sound Motorcycle Adventures". They have a darn good variety of bikes from which to choose. I've ridden BMW R and K models, a Gold Wing, and older FJR, and a number of other bikes rented from them. We have an all-day loop through the Cascade mountains that we like to ride. The only bike I found myself lusting after in that fleet is one of the BMW R models, by the way. A whole day in the saddle turned me off, for various reasons, to each and every bike bike they offer other than that one. So, again, these are only my opinions, but I do form my opinions by riding rather than reading.

Originally Posted by srandallf

whats wrong with the forward controls and 21 inch wheel?

gotta disagree. its just subjective opinion but to me, any other current harley without them is LAME looking and feeling. an old knucklehead bobber with standard controls looks right. feels right. but on a sportser or dyna or softail? not for me.

i get the subjective taste thing, but i dont get your "stay away" from them advice.

does the 21 inch wheel make things scarry sometimes? yes, a little. but not so bad that i would choose a harley without it. as for style, i would demand it. along with spoked wheels. i cant stand mag wheels on a harley. man is that wrong and ugly. however, thats just my taste. i wouldnt advise anyone to stay away from them because a particular brand of society likes this or that

As you mention, the 21" wheel makes them "scarry sometimes". I dramatically affects handling and braking. Yes, I agree they look cool. That is their sole purpose.

Legions of Harley riders obviously disagree with me, as they sure sell a lot of bikes fitted with that 21" wheel. I just won't personally make that sacrifice in handling and braking to look cool. I guess that's why Harley makes such a broad range of motorcycles - they all speak to us in different ways.

Back to the original topic, Dottore is asking for advice on H-D's. Looking at what he has owned and enjoyed in the past, my recommendations are meant to match what appear, from those bikes, to be his riding preferences. The only bikes H-D produces today (outside of the Buell line-up) that even come close to the old Trumpet or the BMW's in weight, handling, braking, and overall performance are the Sportsters. Narrowing the selection even more, I would suggest Sportsters with the standard foot position, twin front discs, and 1200 cc's. And no 21" front wheels (can't get the twin disc on one anyway).

So, those are my opinions. Gained through a lifetime of riding a variety of my own bikes, and even more that I've rented and ridden. Take them for what they are worth.

Edit (since I see Mike has joined us):

Yes, I should qualify what I say with for the kind of riding I do. Particularly with my wife on board. The performace level of the big Road King suits her comfort level. If I'm scraping floorboards with her on the back, I'm also getting slapped on the side of the helmet...

As far as riding the other bikes, I addressed that above. Yes, sport tourers are a lot of fun. I would like to have one to fill the gap between my tourer and my sport bikes. I have the extreme ends of the spectrum, but nothing in the middle. I can see myself on an R bike sometime in the future.

Oh, and as far as that Street Glide - it follows the H-D pattern of taking a great bike (the Electra Glide) and compromising it for "the look". The rear suspension has been substantially lowered on it as well. The standard Electra Glide, Road Glide, and Road King all have the full travel, full height rear suspensions. Not that an aggressive rider still won't scrape the floorboards (I do it daily when I'm on my Road King alone, especially after having spent time on that old Duc...), but they are far better.

Funny, I have a buddy that bought one of the Ultra Classic Electra Glides, the Police Edition. He did the 96 inch big bore, gear drive cams, HTCC heads, yadda yadda yadda. Then he bought a Gold Wing in addition to it. He bemoaned the fact that he dumped an additional $5k into the 'Glide, and still was grossly underpowered compared to the 'Wing. He went on an on for a couple of years about how "superior" the 'Wing was in every way.

He decided to consolidate down to one bike last year. He test rode everything. He wound up buying another Ultra Classic Electra Glide, the new 96 inch six speed model. The 'Wing is long gone. He says it just got boring - it wasn't enough like riding a motorcycle. They are great for those who want to ride and not "put up with" all of the "inconveniences" of riding - like wind, for instance. Anyway, he did the 'Wing thing, and came back to Harley when it was time to buy again.