Quote:
Originally Posted by legion
Shhhh....Don't tell Jeff what Mossberg did to the lever-action.  |
Yeah, I've seen those. Today's sign of the coming apocalypse. Maybe that's what the Mayans foretold... As oddjob would say, "cheese and rice..." Who would buy such an abomination?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aigel
Jeff,
I respect your traditionalist views and always enjoy reading your gun input, but that rifle advice, while logical, is so traditional, that it doesn't leave much to buy these days.
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I know. Guilty as charged. I am a rather hopeless romantic/traditionalist when it comes to certain things. Old guns, old Porsches, old motorcycles. One cannot buy my "ideal car" anymore these days, either, so I putter around in a 40 year old 911. Not everyone's cup of tea, and I realize that. The original question, however, was what we prefer in bolt guns. Those are my preferences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aigel
Maybe it is because I hunt the warmer climates mainly, but I don't know anyone whose trigger froze. I do however know a lot of people - including myself - whose long range shooting improves greatly with a <3 lb trigger that breaks like glass ...
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I actually had the trigger group freeze on a M700 in 7mm mag one day. We were elk hunting in the Cascades west of Yakima. It was raining for days, then the temps plummeted overnight. Many of us in camp had triggers and firing pins freeze.
This might sound kind of weird to hunters in dryer or warmer climates, but here we leave the rifles outside overnight, or any time we are back in camp. If we are camping with the vehicles (as opposed to having packed in) they get locked in a vehicle; if not, they are just under some sort of cover. Either way, definitely outside for the duration of the hunt. Condensation will wreak havoc with them if they are brought inside where they can warm up.
Oh, and as far as trigger pulls, I couldn't agree more. I'm kind of a "trigger snob", really. There is no reason to put up with a lousy trigger. The triggers on the rifles I describe will all easily be made to break at less than three pounds, with minimal creep and over travel. Just because they are rugged doesn't have to mean they are stiff and rough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aigel
I don't care how my "safety" works. I never count on it working - as you should with any gun safety, even the one that locks the pin. I always chamber a round as late as possible ...
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Most of my hunting rifles and (revolvers) over the years have not even had mechanical "safeties". 19th century single shots, lever guns, muzzle loaders, single action revolvers. All depend on the operator being the "safety".
That said, it strikes me that I find myself far more interested in the
other guys' safeties than my own. Realizing that, I understand the feeling is probably mutual. Yes, it should never come into play. I have never seen or heard of a safety actually saving the day. Probably more psychological than anything else.
I always have a round chambered at all times while hunting. I'm a "still hunter" - I get out and walk. Many of the animals I've come across and was lucky enough to bag would have spooked at the sound of an action being worked. Safeties can be loud enough in the still, quiet woods. As an aside, that's one thing I really like about exposed hammer guns - holding the trigger back, they can be cocked silently. As another aside, I would venture to guess my lifetime average range for shooting a big game animal stands at under 50, maybe even under 40 yards. Silence (and rarely, quickness) is mandatory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aigel
On the open sights you have a valid point - not a deal breaker for me however. There are a lot of things that can mess up your hunt - this is just one of them and it isn't terribly likely IMHO, if you buy a good scope with solid mounts / rings. I have beaten the hell out of my scoped rifle in nasty terrain and have yet to lose zero. Also, many hunts would be ruined anyways without a scope. I can't hit an animal past 150 yards with iron sights ... you'll probably tell me I don't practice enough.
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Hell, I don't practice enough, and I shoot at least once a week.
There is a very high end scope laying in the bottom of a gully somewhere off of Sugarloaf Peak, above Leavenworth WA, if anyone wants to go look for it. I took it off my M70 .30-'06 and threw it over the edge of it one day about 30 years ago. It's aluminum, so I'm sure it's still in fine shape.
I had an absolutely beautiful buck jump up from his bed not 30-40 yards in front of me that day. The safety went forward as the rifle was shouldered, me thinking he's dead to rights. Nothing but gray - the scope had fogged internally. Must have had a leak or something. Anyway, that damn buck stood there until I almost had the clamp screws on the Weaver mounts loose. Almost. I think he was mocking me. Mere moments before he would have been mine, he jumped over the lip into the gully. Bastard. I bet the scope beat him to the bottom, though... I wish I would have saved the scope, though, as I found out later they would have fixed it for free. Oh well. Oh, and I did have the last laugh - I managed to find that guy about a week later.
I had an erector tube spring break inside another high end scope one day; this time, thankfully, at the range. It was on a bull barreled Ruger #1 in .220 Swift - hardly a combination that "punishes" a scope. I knew better by then, so this one got fixed for free. The point is, one just never knows. Hunt and shoot enough and it will happen, some day.
Anyhoo, these are all just personal preferences. Some borne of personal experience, some borne of the experience of others, and some just because I'm an opinionated old fart. These are my requirements, but not necessarily anyone else's. Rifles that meet them are everywhere. Granted, few brand new ones, but the world is awash in old Mauser 98's, Winchester M70's, and Springfield 03-A3's. Less than a grand will buy perfectly serviceable examples of either.