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Originally posted by speeder
Island, Do you have any reliable evidence that people have been "killing each other" any time recently in Iraq?
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I have to disagree with Island on this one. They are not "killing each other," that makes it seem like there is some sort of parity. The guys in charge are definately the "killers" and anyone who doesn't kiss their ass is the "kill-ees". Well not all of them, some are the "torture-ees" or "rape-ees", or just in prison.
UK Home office report on human rights
http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/KFile/hrdossier.pdf
Infant mortality numbers, and how they have gone up since the UN sanctions after Gulf war 1. If he had followed the UNSC resolutions, the sanctions would have surely been lifted years ago.
http://www.unicef.org/media/publications/iraqmaternalmortality99.htm
Some friendly stuff from last year:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2056376.stm
Some neighbor threatening from 1999
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,209021,00.html
Mass exocutions from 1998
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,406101,00.html
Systematic torture of political prisoners:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engMDE140082001?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ
And of course, the dead women and children from the Kurd villages he gassed.
http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html
But then, you don't think that matters because it is over "10-15 years ago," regardless of the fact the same people are in charge.
You probably don't remember, but the whole reason the "no-fly zones" exist are because he was attacking villages with helicopter gunships. But again, that is irrelevant to you because it was "10-15 years ago"
Since you seem to think anything that happened "10-15 years ago" stops being relevant, I have a request for you. Send an letter to the California Bureau of Prisons, and ask them to release good old Charlie Manson to your custody. The Manson family shenanegans was 34 years ago. After all that time, it is like those murders never happened.
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I am sure that it will infuriate you to admit this, but the entire country was a pretty peaceful place one month ago.
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Is there a point in there someplace?
Romania was a pretty peacfull place under Nicolae Ceausescu, Yugoslavia was a pretty peacefull place under Tito, as was The Soviet Union under Stalin (once the Nazi's were driven out).
And the " if we had obeyed international law and not invaded this country w/o the approval of the U.N.??" nonsence, we don't need UN approval, because we already have it.
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UNSCR 678 - November 29, 1990
* Iraq must comply fully with UNSCR 660 (regarding Iraq's illegal invasion of Kuwait) "and all subsequent relevant resolutions."
* Authorizes UN Member States "to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area."
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There is a chronology of applicable security councel resolutions
here.
You note by its absence a resolution removing 678's requirement to "use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 and all subsequent relevant resolutions"
The chronology is what is infuriating, it is 11 years of the UN proclaiming:"Stop, or I'll say stop again." You know, the same UN who elected Libya as the chair for human rights, and had the "UN Councel on Women" in China.
Tom