3.0 turbo Carrera FD okay to use??

[Fixer]

Hello,

I bought a 79 US motor which had parts removed and I've found when ordering the Fuel Distributor rebuild kit that my motor also has had the FD swapped for an earlier 3.0 unit.

My motor specs
1979 3,3 liter US motor
The motor came with a 3.0 turbo Carrera Fuel Distributor
System pressure 90 psi
SC cams
Stock Mahle pistons/Carrillo rods (not relevant to question)
Ported 36mm* intake manifold, intake side of Intake ports opened up to 36mm
Euro exhaust
KKK K27/7200 TC
Tial WG
965 I/C with 965 BOV

My question is will this FD (in good shape)be okay to use on my 3,3 liter motor?

Thank you

Matt

[Alan L]

I think the flow specs are lower for the earlier FD.
Alan

[RarlyL8]

The flow output of the -016 3.3L FD is less than that of the 3.3L Euro -037 unit. With the mods you have the -016 might have enough capacity at stock boost levels, assuming the WUR is the -054 from '79. Best to verify AFR to know for sure.

[Fixer]

Originally Posted by Alan L

I think the flow specs are lower for the earlier FD.
Alan

Thank you Alan I agree. I tested pressures and they were good. I want to double check the enrichment feature of the WUR.

I had Tony Donato (CIS GURU but not 930 CIS GURU) test the WUR by the way but I'm not sure he tested its pressure enrichment feature I'll call him. He's a terrific guy btw!


Flow test from my 3.0 FD to WUR was 240cc/min
System pressure was around 90.
Cold control pressure was correct given ambient temperature and warm with WUR plugged in was about 52 psi.

I've done smoke tests and found all air leaks.

Motor runs bad (goes way lean under slight load) gets bad once it warms up to OT. I'll check the intake manifold with smoke tester once warm but I do not think it's a huge vacuum leak once warm but I'm aware of this issue with the 930 pancake IM.

My WUR is connected to boost correctly (port IV on TB).

Ignition timing is set to 25 degrees BTDC at 4000. Boost retard is connected, vacuum retard is plugged as I feel it's an emissions feature to warm up the motor faster.

I believe my issue is fuel starvation.

Parts were taken off my motor, it was supposed to come with it's original FD but the motor floated around prior to the sale and someone got sneaky. I know who it was but will keep quiet.

I think I should buy a rebuilt fuel distributor for a 3.3 liter, ..

Any suggestions on the best one or simply buy what was supposed to be on my 79 motor?

In other words is the later FD better for my motor given it's modifications? thank you!

Matt

[Fixer]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

The flow output of the -016 3.3L FD is less than that of the 3.3L Euro -037 unit. With the mods you have the -016 might have enough capacity at stock boost levels, assuming the WUR is the -054 from '79. Best to verify AFR to know for sure.

Thanks Brian.

I don't have either 3,3 FD I've got a 3.0 unit.

I'll verify serial numbers.

I'm going to do a running CIS pressure test. I want to see if my WUR is enriching as rpms increase.

My FD is wrong so my guess is I need to buy the correct FD. I need to remove all variables.

Matt

[Fixer]

I did a motor running CIS pressure test.

Pumps front/rear stock/044
System pressure 87psi
Warm control pressure 52 psi
After 20 minutes, 23 psi residual pressure

When revving the motor there is no drop whatsoever in control pressure. I'll post the 4 min video once it's ready. I need to try a vacuum pump as there is no boost in the garage.

I have an -054 WUR side connection to port IV on TB. Vent to atmosphere.

No air leaks smoke test again yesterday.

[Fixer]

I cannot get boost with the car in the garage.

I'll cap port IV and add 7-8 psi compressed air while running and see if the WUR is enriching.

Be back with findings.

Matt

[Fixer]

Wur is enriching fine. Drops 10psi with .8bar added.

Fuel pumps deliver 1500 cc / 30 seconds and then some.

Next I'm thinking manifold vacuum ..

I will also replace my boost gauge with one that reads vacuum too.

Who is best to buy a rebuilt 037 FD from?? I was thinking Vertex.

Matt

[Alan L]

Where are you measuring the flow from - return line in FD? Not sure if that validates the FD flow. Validates pumps and supply to FD. Not sure it validates ports flow to injectors.
Here is a test you could do. Bit more work so PITA - but collect the flow at all injectors at WOT - like you would be calibrating the FD. Time the flow. Mine are producing 1000cc approx/30 sec. If you are getting that sort of number you should be good to go. That is the fuel your engine sees. That is without boost dump.
Alan

[Fixer]

So I suspected a vacuum leak at the IM and checked the torque on the 12 nuts. They were at about 14 some were less than. I retorqued them to 17 ft lbs. It is running much better but not 100%. AFR at idle is 10-11 but when I try and get it around 12 it lean pops when revving. I cannot seem to dial it in. It didn't die under load I drove it a little and got it to 170F.

What torque value do you use for the 12 intake manifold nuts. They are usually 18 but I'm using TurboKraft aluminum injector blocks so I went 17. Opinions welcomed. It definitely runs better.
I need a vacuum gauge in the car ASAP.

https://youtu.be/9EtHplWE0go

I'm not convinced the 3.0 turbo Carrera FD is up to the task OR when i "rebuilt" it I may have done something incorrectly. The piston moves freely.

I think next I need to pull the injectors and watch them spray and test flow. Not today though.

I drove Bandit up and down the driveway.

Matt

[Alan L]

I think the torque on the IM is 24. I have the Al blocks too. But I chicken out at 18. 24 'feels' excessive. I have no issues at 18.
Alan

[Alan L]

yes a poor injector pattern at low opening may be a possibility. If you are going to check that you may as well measure your flow at WOT while you have them out.
Alan

[Fixer]

Originally Posted by Alan L

I think the torque on the IM is 24. I have the Al blocks too. But I chicken out at 18. 24 'feels' excessive. I have no issues at 18.
Alan

Thanks Alan, I chickened out at 17.

I can test for idle changes with mapp gas while running but may go to 18.

I will have an 037 fuel distributor I have checked/calibrated.

I have 6 new 009 injectors on the motor already which is good.

I'm getting really good at working on this motor!

Matt

[RarlyL8]

This pi$$es me off to no end. There was a freshly rebuilt -037 FD on that engine when originally sold along with a freshly rebuilt WUR and new fuel injectors.

[Fixer]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

This pi$$es me off to no end. There was a freshly rebuilt -037 FD on that engine when originally sold along with a freshly rebuilt WUR and new fuel injectors.

I hear that!

I bought new injectors recently from Vertex, they gave me a good price. I think your 054 WUR is on the motor and tests fine. My buddy found me a good 037 FD.

WUR test while engine is running https://youtube.com/shorts/9EtHplWE0go?feature=share

I'm going to test it on the car and see if all ports open uniformly and if the airplate moves freely. If not my friend Tony Dinato can bench calibrate it he's local to me.

The motor itself sounds great, first 20 min oil change after cam break in I found clean oil. Cut the oil filter to find very minimal break in deposits. The engine is good!

Matt

[Fixer]

My motor is running great! It was definitely my intake manifold nuts being under torqued.

I tested the FD I put new O rings in and it works fine and is very much within specification.

I used the stock injector block value which is 16.6.

I put 20 ft lbs on them and it sounds wonderful, I will test some more and see if it needs another 1-2 pounds.

As it heat cycles it'll crush the IM gaskets and may require a re torque.

I didn't realize the value was 24 lb ft.

https://youtube.com/shorts/fj2_gI7ikr4?feature=share

[Fixer]

Originally Posted by Alan L

Where are you measuring the flow from - return line in FD? Not sure if that validates the FD flow. Validates pumps and supply to FD. Not sure it validates ports flow to injectors.
Here is a test you could do. Bit more work so PITA - but collect the flow at all injectors at WOT - like you would be calibrating the FD. Time the flow. Mine are producing 1000cc approx/30 sec. If you are getting that sort of number you should be good to go. That is the fuel your engine sees. That is without boost dump.
Alan

I measured the fuel pumps volume before the filter which should be a minimum of 1500cc / 30 seconds. My pumps were approaching 1500 at around 25 seconds. I used a stock front and 044 rear.

When you say 1000cc/30 seconds you mean for ALL of your injectors, mine are easily doing that.

https://youtube.com/shorts/fj2_gI7ikr4?feature=share

I have a 037 FD now. It wasn't a PITA to test, seeing with your eyes and no longer wondering is worth every minute wrenching imo.

Alan are you the Alan that supercharged the 928?

Matt

[Alan L]

Yep - 1000cc/30 sec over 6 injectors = approx 170cc/injector over 30 sec.
If you have more than that you have plenty.
Alan

[Fixer]

Originally Posted by Alan L

Yep - 1000cc/30 sec over 6 injectors = approx 170cc/injector over 30 sec.
If you have more than that you have plenty.
Alan

I definitely do thank you.

Matt

[Fixer]

Edit.