Evergreen 3DLZ Raptor

[EauRouge]

I was checking out Evergreen's FB page and noticed they offered a raptor upgrade for the 3LDZ. Maybe it is a silly question (i.e. get a K27 or Turbocraft Garett), will this upgrade make a big difference? Anyone think it is worthwhile?

[timc]

So I bought a new K27 from Charlie (Evergreen) and he did his "Raptor" mods back in early 2021. I then (and still am) considered sending my 3ldz to him for his Raptor mods. I cannot even begin to express what a nice guy he is.

If you have more specific questions I'd email/call him, that's what I did. That way you get accurate information.


I asked him the following when I was trying to get an understanding of the HP improvements between the two.

Tim:
"What is the difference between the “Raptor” 3ldz and the “Raptor” K27 in power?"

Charlie:
"about 40 HP OEM Trim Billet Compressors"

[EauRouge]

Thanks! I will reach to Charlie.

[T77911S]

I have a 7200 modded by him.
boost comes in a lot lower. very much nicer to drive.
love the turbo.

I have a few other mods to my engine that may work against reducing turbo lag like bigger ports, SC cams.

[freesaints]

I also have a 7200 that Chris @TB worked with me and Evergreen to convert to Raptor. It's been great so far, and like others have said, boost comes on a bit earlier than it did before. Seems to be a good first step for performance gains before going down the Garrett route.

[TurboKraft]

We've worked with Charlie about 25 years now, and he's just the best with these K-series turbochargers.

TurboKraft has a 100% stock 1986-88 930 in the shop, <50k miles, in for a full upgrade.
Before we modify it, we're going to do a number of dyno tests on these turbochargers.
1) stock baseline with a free-flow 3in muffler, original 3LDZ
2) 3LDZ Raptor turbocharger -- these have a billet comp wheel and a different, more efficient turbine wheel
3) new 3LDZ R10 turbocharger -- the latest variant we're co-developing, with a billet comp wheel and a brand new lightweight, large 10-blade turbine wheel
No other changes to the engine other than small adjustments to the CO screw.

Dyno results will be posted.

"But don't journal bearing turbochargers 'loosen up' and become more responsive over 50-100 miles?"
Yes, they typically do get a little better with miles on them.
We're not going to go drive the car a few hours between turbocharger swaps. This is back-to-back, results are what they are.

There could also be a (3a) with 1-size larger billet compressor wheel, but we suspect the CIS will characteristically run out of fuel delivery first.

[reclino]

I will be waiting to read these test results. I rebuilt my stock 3LDZ and it's on the shelf waiting for me to get on with putting the engine together. Only change from bone stock was a mild trim to the hot side wheel.
David
Performance EngiNerding

[EauRouge]

I look forward to hearing about the Turbokraft results with the 3LDZ

[gassian]

Originally Posted by TurboKraft

We've worked with Charlie about 25 years now, and he's just the best with these K-series turbochargers.

TurboKraft has a 100% stock 1986-88 930 in the shop, <50k miles, in for a full upgrade.
Before we modify it, we're going to do a number of dyno tests on these turbochargers.
1) stock baseline with a free-flow 3in muffler, original 3LDZ
2) 3LDZ Raptor turbocharger -- these have a billet comp wheel and a different, more efficient turbine wheel
3) new 3LDZ R10 turbocharger -- the latest variant we're co-developing, with a billet comp wheel and a brand new lightweight, large 10-blade turbine wheel
No other changes to the engine other than small adjustments to the CO screw.

Dyno results will be posted.

"But don't journal bearing turbochargers 'loosen up' and become more responsive over 50-100 miles?"
Yes, they typically do get a little better with miles on them.
We're not going to go drive the car a few hours between turbocharger swaps. This is back-to-back, results are what they are.

There could also be a (3a) with 1-size larger billet compressor wheel, but we suspect the CIS will characteristically run out of fuel delivery first.

Chris,

cannot wait to see the results as i am in same situation as the car you are doing this experiment on.
86' 930 original 3LDZ (compressor blades to 6+6 billet wheel)

Thanks,
Z

[turbo ride]

Looking forward to the results. Charlie did a K27 for me - was thinking about doing a before / after dyno but I'm kinda too lazy.

[quattrorunner]

sub for fun.

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by TurboKraft

We've worked with Charlie about 25 years now, and he's just the best with these K-series turbochargers.

TurboKraft has a 100% stock 1986-88 930 in the shop, <50k miles, in for a full upgrade.
Before we modify it, we're going to do a number of dyno tests on these turbochargers.
1) stock baseline with a free-flow 3in muffler, original 3LDZ
2) 3LDZ Raptor turbocharger -- these have a billet comp wheel and a different, more efficient turbine wheel
3) new 3LDZ R10 turbocharger -- the latest variant we're co-developing, with a billet comp wheel and a brand new lightweight, large 10-blade turbine wheel
No other changes to the engine other than small adjustments to the CO screw.

Dyno results will be posted.

"But don't journal bearing turbochargers 'loosen up' and become more responsive over 50-100 miles?"
Yes, they typically do get a little better with miles on them.
We're not going to go drive the car a few hours between turbocharger swaps. This is back-to-back, results are what they are.

There could also be a (3a) with 1-size larger billet compressor wheel, but we suspect the CIS will characteristically run out of fuel delivery first.

I would love to see the back pressure differences. also compared to a garret.
I hear a lot of CIS guys going lean about 5500 with the garret. I have always assumed it was reduced back pressure.

when I had my 7006 on I wanted to check it to compare but I never got the parts to do it.

[Restore_84]

Subscribed, I love my 3LDZ More than enough for spirited street driving with the right engine recipe.

[TurboKraft]

Originally Posted by T77911S

I would love to see the back pressure differences. also compared to a garret.
I hear a lot of CIS guys going lean about 5500 with the garret. I have always assumed it was reduced back pressure.

when I had my 7006 on I wanted to check it to compare but I never got the parts to do it.

Backpressure: probably won't be logging that, this Dynapack chassis dyno has only 1x pressure sensor (MAP) built in.

A lot of 930s simply run lean above 5,000 - 5,500rpm. Period.
The brand of the turbocharger is irrelevant; above a certain amount of airflow, the CIS injection simply cannot maintain the necessary fuel delivery.

[gassian]

any update on the experiment Chris?

[TurboKraft]

Delayed -- finishing other vehicles as long-back-ordered parts have been coming in.

[jcw000]

Charlie recently performed the Raptor X upgrade on my 3LDZ (his pics below) so I should be able to try it out by end of next week. My car is an otherwise pretty much stock 1988 (prior owner installed a Classic Retrofit CDI+ ignition). The only other mods I’m having done at the moment are swapping a B&B test pipe in for the cat and installing a WEVO short shift kit. I will report back but will have no dyno before or after (unless someone points me to one in South Florida in which case I can do the after).

[TurboKraft]

That should perform very well, especially if you have a free-flowing muffler installed.

The new turbine wheel is substantially better flowing than the standard Raptor turbine wheel, which is better than the stock one.

New 3LDZ-RX (left) and 3LDZ-R (right) -- the ones we have put aside for back-to-back testing.

[gassian]

wow this is so tempting Chris...
now that i put the Long Neck IC of yours, i want to go crazy

[Alan L]

I have a 7006 on its way to Evergreen, for the mods. Will be a while - with the freight system these days.
And I have a stock 7006 on the car at present.
Alan