Engine Rebuild EFI results
 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1172503272.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1172503291.jpg

It is still a 3.3 but with JE Pistons. Tec3r EFI with sequential injection running 72 lb injectors. It has a Garrett Turbo Charger and a Borla Muffler. All work done by Pat Williams Racing. I had some work done by other shops before but none of that work held up. Pat redid everything.

Questions, Comments?

Any idea why there is a (relatively) huge dip in AFR at ~5600 rpm?

Are you using 3.2 intake? And I'm curious about your injector duty cycle (I'm using 52lb ones and am running out).

thanks.

I don't have the EFI MAP in my possesion just yet, so I don't know why the AFR behaves that way. I am using the 3.2 intake. I'll run a datalog later today and gather some information about injector duty cycle.

The numbers look really good especially at 0.85 bar!

Would be interested in any other details as well, for example: which Garrett do you have? A/R and Trim? How about the cams?

TIA

Those numbers are huge for 0.85 bar and the curve looks really smooth for a monster turbo. What are the full specs?

Wow, nice job. Get that A/F curve straightened out and there is even more free power.

A little over 500 at the wheels at .85 Bar. So this would only be mid 500 at the FW.

Rather measly results.




Joking aside, do you have an explanation for the rapid drop in torque above 6000. Stock cams?

So what would 1.0 bar do? or are we not going there.

Sounds like similar performance to Mikes turbo.


David (125 shifter), was your torque curve still flat above 6000?

Jim

More Specs to answer some questions:

Euro SC Twin Plug Heads
Large Intake valves
Webb cams 964S (05-302)

I have a 1.0 bar spring in the WG but measured at the manifold it is only getting to .85. Measured at the brake booster it reads higher for some reason.

I certainly could use some more tuning on the A/F curve. I got tired of waiting on the car and took it before they got it fine tuned. I'll drop it back off to Pat in a month or so when I go on vacation.

Where is the MAP sensor connected? I wonder if it's not getting a true signal?

Either way, that's great output for your setup.

My curves look very similar to those just lower :(. At 0.7 bar, my peak hp is 390 and peak torque is 340. We ran it up to 7000 rpm, but I think peak hp was about 6000 just like DRV2FST's curve.

Map Sensor
 

Here are some photos of the engine bay from slightly different angles.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1172529120.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1172529140.jpg

I guess this is the MAP sensor. Am I correct?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1172529174.jpg

Very nice indeed! Congrats and enjoy! :cool:

Yes, the one in the bottom picture is the MAP sensor. Where does the hose connect to?

Which hose?

The hose from the MAP sensor :)

To the bottom of the throttle body. It is the middle one in this photo.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1172536320.jpg

By the way, it just passed emissions without a CAT. I'll post the story in the general 911 technical forum.

Hey, DRV2FST, I like your project and I sent you a private message about it.

thanks, PM replied

Great results! You/your builder did everything "right".

- Garrett turbo (you never mentioned which one? I presume GT35R or GT40R) and no KKK stuff
- EFI and no CIS
- Carrera intake and not sub-optimal CIS intake
- Bigger IC
- Twin plugs
- JE pistons.
- Correctly sized injectors from scratch

Also, depending on where you take your boost reading from, you might get higher results before intercooler compared to plenum. Your intercooler might be a bit too small. I guess that your internal boost gauge is fed off the brake-booster line and that dyno papers used MAP-sensor, right?

AFR curve is conservative, with rich readings where V/E is supposed to be high. It would be informative to see VE table from your EFI. I believe you could pick some extra torque in the area where AFR's are low by leaning them a tad but it all depends on VE at that revs. If car is breathing "well" where AFR's are in 10's then Pat Williams probably kept it rich to keep it safe which is a sign of a pro. It's better to have a bullet-proof engine with slightly less torque at lower revs than one with hole in a piston ;)

Since there's air flow through the throttle body where the MAP sensor is reading, it will read a lower pressure than in the manifold. I'd trust the boost gauge since it's getting pressure from the side of the manifold where there's less flow.

Even at 1.0 bar, it's really excellent results.

Yes, the tuning was done reading the boost where the MAP sensor connects. My boost gauge is reading it at the brake booster.

Pat did not get to choose most of the equipment on this install. Two other shops had screwed up my engine rebuild and EFI conversion before. He had to make due with what I had in many cases. He did a wonderful job. He did choose the turbo, injectors, muffler, and JE pistons. So the intercooler and location of the air filter were not his fault.

Wow..inspiring....incredible results.

Yasin

Thanks. I'll try to keep updating as I get the AFR's fine tuned.

Truly professional work.

I'd like to know how you were able to mate the throttle body to your intercooler. It looks like you turned the Carrera intake 180 degrees which explains the throttle linkage being on the right.

Even so, the angle would have been about 10-15 degrees off based on my crude measurements. Did you cut, rotate, and then reweld the intake or did you use some kind of adapter?

What is also cool, is that you retained the Kokeln with the Carrera Intake.

Daddy likey!

Yasin

I already had the Kokeln and did not see a reason to buy another IC. They did have to cut the TB and Intake and rotate them around to get them to fit. The end result is IC mounts and TB that are "in theory" in stock 930 locations.

I am starting to regret the twin plug. So far it has just added more wires to come loose and leave the car running like crap until found and addressed. That has happened twice now (once before the rebuild and once after). There is debate over the value of twin plug for turbo cars. There is no debate about the higher cost and rate of failure in twice as many components.

Which wires are coming loose? I went twin plug because it was my understanding that when you get to 98mm bores even with lower compression (ie no dome to block the spark travel) the flame has to travel too far.

#5 Lower and #1 Upper right now. I forgot which one(s) before.

Got the plug wire replaced and back up to full speed. I'll swap out the plug wires soon for another set that will hopefully stay attached better.

What brand wires are they?

They are Clewett wires. I really like Richard Clewett. He has been great to work with on this system. I don't know if this problem is due to the wires themselves or the 2 different shops that have been messing with them.

I've got Clewett's too. I returned the first set (bought over a year ago) because the spark plug end pulled off several wires when I removed them. Richard sent new ones a couple months ago and they seem to fit great. How old are yours?

Drv2FST: I dont remember which site it was, but theres a company that make hold downs that hold the wire in place so the end cannot pull from the cover without unbolting the hold down first. If you want I could try to find it

I just ordered those from Clewett. I have not installed them yet.

Sorry to hijack - but I am definitely interested. Will they fit "any" wires/plug ends?

thanks!

http://www.smartracing.net/pdfcat/srpcatalog2006.pdf
This site has the hold downs and they are pricey at $12 each, but will solve any problems with the plug ends falling out. :D

I am pretty sure you can buy the hold downs on ebay
search porsche 934 or 935

Clewett has a set of 6 for $58.50. Our host sells the 964 solution "964-602-559-00-M100" for $0.50 each. I don't know if they would work for the 930 but maybe someone does.

Oh I didn't know, I only seen these and thought they would be a good solution, if you could get them cheaper that would be good. After all they are only bent pieces of sheet metal with rubber in-cased ends on them- how much could you charge for that?
I just don't have the problem as I unfortunately don't have twin plug yet :(