Vote for the Best Headers

[911nut]

Of all 930/965 3.3 liter header manufacturers, who provides the best price, performance and durability and manufacturing quality? Please explain your choice.

[RarlyL8]

Er, I don't see SSI on that list and they sure as hell don't belong in the "other" catagory with OBX. Ha!

[911nut]

I'm referring to headers that are turbo forward.
As of right now SSi's are heat exchangers only.

[turbobrat930]

I would also put in a box for custom headers from guys such as Marco Manzie, Holcombe, etc....

[RarlyL8]

What do you mean "turbo forward"?
SSI manufactures heat exchangers for 930s. If you are strictly specifying headers then SSIs do not qualify as they have the pipes enclosed in heat exchangers.

It's no longer a matter of getting what you pay for either. Some of the big players have quality issues. Economy units like OBX are a fitment gamble but cheap enough to hack up and fix if you can weld. All are susceptible to cracking if the exhaust temps are out of wack or when used on track cars.

[911nut]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

What do you mean "turbo forward"?
SSI manufactures heat exchangers for 930s. If you are strictly specifying headers then SSIs do not qualify as they have the pipes enclosed in heat exchangers.

From the exhaust ports to the turbo, as opposed to turbo back.
So does SSI make a complete system running to the turbo?

[RarlyL8]

Ben and I are producing these systems as a bolt-on.

[911nut]

So far B&B is leading by a wide margin.
Over on Rennlist I read about cracking tubes on B&B and no customer service/warranty.
Comments please.
Brian, is your system for SSI's fabricated from 321 S.S.?

[DonE]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Er, I don't see SSI on that list and they sure as hell don't belong in the "other" catagory with OBX. Ha!

On the other hand, I wouldn't exactly call them performance headers either.

[RarlyL8]

930 heat exchangers are made from 347 stainless, specifically for the turbo application.
I guess "performance" is subjective. Are they a performance enhancement for a 935? No. For a street 930? Yes.

[NathanUK]

I'm pretty happy with my GHL's. They were an excellent fit, look very neat and well made.
The negatives are that the collectors on the B&B's perform better & the GHL's are not 100% stainless steel as the flanges are mild steel/lcs.

[William930t]

I too have read about cracking on B&B units, most frequently at the collector. My vote goes to GHL because of their noted customer service: you get cracks they will fix or replace them. I also like the turbo-modified SSI headers, it really helps starting with a well proven & high quality product.

Remember, OEM turbo exhaust is the ultimate in strength (and weight), while aftermarket SS headers under boosted pressure and heat will wear out quicker. Look for products with verified 321 stainless.

[Falk930]

This all depends on what you want and what you can do by your own.

I have 2 sets OBX here, on one set I am building heat exchangers around,
the other I leave as they are.
Both sets needed some rebending and checking for
welding/grinding waste inside.
NEVER install OBX without deeply checking them inside!!
We found small loose pieces in both header sets.
Those would have killed the turbo for sure.

Rebended, checked and cleaned they seeme quiet price worth.
...if you are able to do that work and have the equipment!

Cant say anything about the other brands.
Most I like some of the custom headers
which came up here.

Falk

[DonE]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

930 heat exchangers are made from 347 stainless, specifically for the turbo application.
I guess "performance" is subjective. Are they a performance enhancement for a 935? No. For a street 930? Yes.

No, performance is not subjective - it's objective, and quantitative. It either improves throttle response, HP, torque, etc, or it doesn't. Then there is the issue of cost vs it's competition.

I have no experience with SSI, so that's the reason for my original comment.

[JohnJL]

Maybe not subjective but relative i think is correct. I think the connotation might be lost in translation. You both are right i think.

[RarlyL8]

SSI has no competition. There is no other manufacturer on the market that uses 347 or has anything near the quality for the price. If you find anything that comes close post it.
As for performance, to compare the SSI design to the stock US or Euro heat exchangers is an obvious upgrade. All other popular aftermarket headers and heat exchangers use the shortest non-equal length path to the turbo. Good for spool but lacking the low end off-boost tuning of true equal length primaries. Typically only high-end exensive racing headers use this quality of material and design.
Is that a littler better?

[mb911]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

930 heat exchangers are made from 347 stainless, specifically for the turbo application.
I guess "performance" is subjective. Are they a performance enhancement for a 935? No. For a street 930? Yes.

Brian the ssi's are 321 and the y joint is 347 jus for all to be clear on

[mb911]

Oh and m&k being a manufacturer dealing with 321 exclusivly I can tell you the ssi set up is fantastic. Ssi make the heat exchanger shorter then the standard ssi using 321 material and a nice V-band. Then rarlyl8 designed the cross over Y and ssi casts the y joint out of 347. M&K then welds the assembly up and you have a very nice,high quality 930 part infact click on my thread in my sig to see them installed on my car. love em other wise would have never gone down that road

[sand_man]

[FLAME SUIT ACTIVATED] such a shame to see those big poll numbers for B&B. My story? I had a well tuned engine (correct timing and AFRs that were checked often) and they cracked at the primary pipe heater box junction. Once removed, I could see the beginnings of several other cracks/holes in the other pipes. They didn't last 8,000 miles.

Mine had been cracked for several months, and I never really noticed it until I installed a muffler and could hear what was going on (had been running a zork). Even then, the leak wasn't obvious as it was occurring within the heater box. That's safe! At any rate, I was about two months beyond (not even) their stated warranty and was on the receiving end of some of the worst customer service relations, imaginable!

So I rolled the dice on the OBX Racing (no heat) with a claimed 321 material and "life time warranty" (yeah right, I'm not that big of a fool). I had no fitment issues on the install. And for what it would cost me to buy another set of B&Bs, I could buy four or five sets of OBX! Maybe I was lucky, and sure on my way home tonight, the OBX could just as easily crack, but I'm satisfied. Mostly satisfied because if they do crack, I won't feel rapped at having plunked down $2,200 for the leak!

These engines are hard on headers. As much as I'd like to own another set of big balla hi dolla headers, I have to be content until I know for sure someone has created a set that aren't "disposable" and will stand behind them even if there are problems. Seems that RarlyL8 and M&K are onto something and maybe by the time my OBX have taken a dump and I've confirmed that my "life time warranty" wasn't worth the paper wasted to print it, I'll be ready for a set...

[fredmeister]

Why are these cars so hard on headers?
I mean is there a way of quantifying how long they shold be expected to last on a car barring any faults from initial manufacturing like crappy welds and such?