Expected de-valuation of 930 after EFI conversion...

[Tilikum Turbo]

Although the EFI upgrades to the older factory 3.0L/3.3L produce tangible results at the dyno, and better MPG, do the costs outweigh the benefits(long term) when it comes to the current and re-sale value?

Example, is my sister put in 15,000 worth or granite counters thru her house...and they looked great while she was there. But she never saw a dime on her return as the new owners not only didn't pay anything else extra for the 'upgrade', but to her horror, told her they would be removed after she left.

Knowing what you know about Porsches, if you had say 45-70K to buy a pristine 930 with 5-50K on it, would you hesistate looking in the engine seeing a motor that is now not-stock?

Watching auctions(such as Barrett Jackson), it appears owners take a massive hit when it comes to re-sale value of any collectable/iconic car the farther down the 'slippery' slope of modifications, the value of the investment goes in that direction as well. Just an observation, and makes me think of having two Porsches...one for stroking/track duty, and the other, an un-molested example.

[911TurboLook]

Stock is best. Mods usually don't add any value to car, they usually make the car less. Some mods are neutral and won't hurt the resale value, but engine mods are a big no for any Porsche collectors. People usually do mods for their own personification and don't think about resale because the car will never be for-sale.

[Tippy]

As a huge cheerleader of EFI, I can understand why conversions scare buyers. Simply put, 10-15 yrs down the road if there's a problem, you need someone who's fluent in the system. Not always as they all work pretty much the same, but when it comes to electronic diagnosing and tuning. You need the right software to interface with the particular system.

[Matt Monson]

Keep every single one of your stock CIS parts and don't lose any sleep over it. When/If it comes time to sell it will be 100% reversible. It's not like you took a '69 longnose and converted it to steel factory 930 body work. There's scales to modifications and personally I don't think a well done EFI conversion is something to be overly concerned about when it comes to resale value.

The granite counterop conversion comparison isn't really a good example. That would be like if you took your 930 and did a 934 bodywork conversion on it. I would look at that car for sale and start drooling. Someone else would look at it and think how much it was going to cost them to fix what you had done to that poor little car. That's a question of taste and we all have different tastes.

[TurboKraft]

Well put, Matt.
IMO, the guy looking to turn a nice 934-bodied car back to stock is simply the wrong buyer. The seller needs to present the car better and attract the right buyer.

It also comes down to your intentions with the car: are you buying it as an investment, or buying it to drive it?
Buy an investment car and you better park it -- mileage and normal wear and tear diminish the value.
Buy it car to drive it, and you'll likely want to make it more driveable -- which means the mods typically discussed on this board.

A well-designed EFI conversion is able to be completely converted back to stock with no permanent modifications to the engine or chassis. That's how we do most EFI jobs at TurboKraft: bolt-in, and the only permanent mod is a small slit in the engine tin behind cylinder #3. 1989 Turbo Slantnose Cabriolet, 1994 Turbo S, 1976 Turbo Carrera... each of these we've done could have the EFI easily removed and the CIS re-installed.

And you can store all the stock stuff if you want to present it to a future buyer as "here's all the stock stuff to undo all the improvements in driveability and performance."
...if that's the only buyer you can find...

[tailwind22]

I think the answer is two part. Factory stock rules the roost when it comes to the collector market but lets face it, a modded 930 with efi, headers, a bigger turbo and intercooler and coilovers is a heck of a lot more fun to drive than a stock 930. I think the market is scared of modded 930s because there are so many hack jobs out there running more boost and timing advance than they should resulting in the next owner incurring unplanned costs to correct. I think that the educated 930 owner on Pelican can appreciate and will pay for some level of mods done right; but you will never recapture, dollar for dollar, the cost of mods. That's why I have my stock collectable Porsches that I hope will perform well from a value standpoint and my modded 930 hot rod that I will stick money in knowing that I will no recapture it.

[9Thirty]

I really don't care. Life is short, I'm driving the car I want to drive. I didn't buy it as an investment, I bought it to drive it and enjoy it. EFI, headers/exhaust, larger turbo, intercooler, LWFW, sport clutch and suspension upgrades make a sleepy car a beast. My choice is to drive a beast. You don't want to buy it because of that, fine with me. It looks completely stock otherwise (body, interior).

[Simon930Berlin]

Personally, I love the car stock.

There is limits to that. Like stupid ass stuff as thermal reactors that from an engineering point of view do not make sense and only heat up the engine, even at the time for smog only.. But as an example I am keeping the air filter box. IMHO few things in an engine bay look worse than half ass mods, like one blue silicon hose, or a k&n filter, if you dont go all the way. Or adding an intercooler to a 3.0 and change the whale tail to tea tray wing. In value right now, thats probably one of the dumbest things you can do..

Again, personally, and I hope I am not offending heads here, I dont believe in the "you can bolt it back on" theory. You can, but will you? A used component, if used with care, stays functional - and parts do get lost. Same with the EFI conversion, if you do not look for more HP, if you think the car is great as it was built in the first place and at that time (in my case 36 years ago), why convert?

A stock setup by Porsche was meant to last many 100K kilometers, if checked by Porsche, not interfered with and well maintained - isnt that the quality of these things, that engineering quality, the built-for-endurance mentality?

In that respect I would treat street cars (that are also more rare by the day and additionally increase in value) like race cars, unmodified, a piece of their time.

Sorry, on a vacation with too much time on my hands

[speednme1]

Well I guess I'm screwed when the times comes to move on...lol. I gave this topic(resale)a lot of thought during my search for a 930. I came upon two interesting examples, my current car and a 1986 pearl white 930...which was gorgeous! I booked my flight and headed to Michigan. I test drove the white one first. It was a nice drive then I test drove my current car...holy crap! She drove like a bat out of hell. I could not stop grinning. My mind told me to go with the white one(very mint and will increase in value). My heart on the other hand, told me to go with the car with RUF mods. It was a tough decision(knowing fairly well that modded cars don't fair well on resale). At the current moment my car is undergoing the efi conversion(so I'm losing double). In all honesty I purchased the car for me....not the next buyer. If I ever decide to sell, I may or may not do well. In the end I have to do what makes me happy...tomorrow is not guaranteed..let the chips fall where they may.

Oh and on converting the car back to stock after an efi....why even bother? IMO its pointless...just find a stock model and move on

[Simon930Berlin]

See speednme1, your ride is unreal, nothing half ass about it!

But be aware, make your car a sensible stock all documented original or make it an awesome tribute, otherwise it might be worth close to nothing?
I've seen turbo targas with 964 bumpers for sale, ask the guy what it's worth

You should go stock - or all the way. 934/935 style or yellowbirds and like the D-Zug projects for example (and many others out here). That was exactly my point.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Simon930Berlin

Again, personally, and I hope I am not offending heads here, I dont believe in the "you can bolt it back on" theory. You can, but will you? A used component, if used with care, stays functional - and parts do get lost. Same with the EFI conversion, if you do not look for more HP, if you think the car is great as it was built in the first place and at that time (in my case 36 years ago), why convert?

Who said anything about putting the parts back on? You just present them to the prospective buyer and tell them that the option always exists. Once they drive it they will just put the boxes in their attic for another decade. But selling a car has a lot to do with perception. The perception that it can be returned to stock is the reason for keeping the take off parts.

[sundevil64]

I am with Matt and Chris. I don't see an issue if the install is clean and is "bolt on" only. I am contemplating efi'ing my 78 sunroof delete 930. I will keep every piece and I even have a nearly full set of tin. I don't think there is an either/or class for owning a car like the 930 such as drive or investment. I am doing both. I will drive the car and enjoy it like it should be, but will not make changes that are so substantial to dramatically affect the resale price. I am an old Chevy person. My Dad was a purist so every nut and bolt was kept in a dry safe place if any mods were done. He never lost any value, actually it helped. He had the upgrades that the general population liked, but had the factory parts specific to that car for the next owner should they want them. I have strayed from the "purists" my Dad tried to instill into me but respect the concept and abide by it. The exception would be that car that has been so far off the path there is no going back.

So in a nut shell, I say mod it provided you don't stray into territory that deprives the next owner of a pure car. I would guess a poorly modded efi 930 could cost you a 1/3rd the price. Just guessing, but if a 930 were worth $40k I would say it would only be worth around $28k unless everything else is in order then I would say $32k-34k. Maybe I am talking out of my rear, but that's my $.02

[M5guy]

I have a CIS car which serves me well at about 350 HP, but if I was in the market for another 930 and I saw an EFI car where the work was done at a reputable shop, like TK, it would actually add value for me. OTOH, if it was a megasquirt home job, even if done well, I would pass on the car, all things considered. Not all EFI conversions are equal.

[Tippy]

I have a CIS car which serves me well at about 350 HP, but if I was in the market for another 930 and I saw an EFI car where the work was done at a reputable shop, like TK, it would actually add value for me. OTOH, if it was a megasquirt home job, even if done well, I would pass on the car, all things considered. Not all EFI conversions are equal.

Where do you think reputable shop owners started their craft?

Also, if you think MegaSquirt is an inferior product, you clearly should read up on it. Couldn't be further from the truth.

[Lapkritis]

X2. Modern megasquirt is superior to the majority of efi products.

[Hams930T]

Personally speaking... I would have paid more for a car if I found one I was looking for with the right mods and an EFI conversion. I am in the process of doing one for my car. A properly built EFI car holds plenty of value to the right buyer looking for that kind of car.

Stock? Pssh.... I thought about stock for about a day after I bought my car and then started modding like crazy. It's fun; these cars are meant to enjoy, stock or otherwise. Do what you wish with the car.

My only advice, as many others would likely agree - if you're going to do it, make sure you do it right. My guess is that I am not the only out there who places value on a good efi converted car.


Chris.

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by Simon930Berlin

See speednme1, your ride is unreal, nothing half ass about it!

But be aware, make your car a sensible stock all documented original or make it an awesome tribute, otherwise it might be worth close to nothing?
I've seen turbo targas with 964 bumpers for sale, ask the guy what it's worth

You should go stock - or all the way. 934/935 style or yellowbirds and like the D-Zug projects for example (and many others out here). That was exactly my point.

Thank you Simon for the compliment.

[911nut]

Which EFI manufacturer is the most desirable to convert a car with? What will parts availability be like in 10-20 years? I would like to hear some opinions about that.
Thanks.

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by 911nut

Which EFI manufacturer is the most desirable to convert a car with? What will parts availability be like in 10-20 years? I would like to hear some opinions about that.
Thanks.

I'm using Motec(as I was shown a unit that has been in service for more than 14+ years to solidify my choice)..very widely used in the race scene...hopefully they will be around for another 10-20 years.

[9Thirty]

Which EFI manufacturer is the most desirable to convert a car with? What will parts availability be like in 10-20 years? I would like to hear some opinions about that.

Thanks.

930 EFI Conversion kit, single plug w/injector blocks [9007-14] - $5,280.00 : Clewett Engineering, The complete solution for ignition & fuel injection