930 vs 993 Turbo

[Janusz1]

How these two compare?
Forget the prices; lets take 1978/1979 nicely modified 930 and compare it with say 1997 993 Turbo.
Fun of driving - is 993 modern enough, 4wd, electronics etc to be less raw and driver's car to the point of distraction?
Performance ?
Easy to modify?
Maintenance?
Just curious

[Noah930]

I have a stock '87 turbo, and have also had thr opportunity to drive a friend's stock '97 turbo. While only 10 years apart chronologically, the cars are worlds different performance-wise. You feel/I felt like a superhero in the 993tt. Between AWD, twin turbocharging, and 400 horses, I could do no wrong. It's civilized enough to drive like a Camry, but when you drop the hammer, it's definitely still a 911. I loved it.

But the astronomical price of a 993tt, combined with the comment made by a friend (who's the shop mgr at a well-respected Porsche indy shop) regarding 993tt maintenance costs ("a supercar with supercar maintenance costs") have tempered any desire for me to actually own one.

[Alan L]

I have driven a 996TT on the track hard out, and my comments would be same as above. Worlds apart, truely impressive, car could do no wrong, and the owner has also had some expensive bills. Hopefully not caused by me.
But don't underestimate the progress of these cars.
Alan

[rdwinelover]

Not exactly what you are asking, but my .02 cents...

I owned at the same time a 2003 GT2 and a 1977 930. I bought them at the same time and they arrived in the same week. The GT2 was sold a few months later. The 930 will never leave.

[x98boardwell]

I've owned an 87 930, a 996 TT and now have a 97 993TT. I loved the 930 turbo but it took forever to deliver. The boost came on after I read a book and had a coffee and the A/C was terrible. With that being said I chose not to upgrade all of the items needed to change that due to wanting a period correct vehicle so I can see how this wouldn't paint a totally accurate picture of what's obtainable. I will say that I did love the feel of the 930 more than any other car I've driven as it truly felt like I was in control with no other involvement from systems made to correct me in an error or make the ride quality better.

The 996TT was amazing but I just couldn't drive it.. It lost all of the nostalgia that I liked about an older car. I sold it with 11k miles on it. It car performed beautifully but wasn't old enough for me.

Now, I have a 97 993TT. This to me provides the most of what I liked about the 930 but all of the creature comforts of a newer vehicle that I like/need in my climate and I don't feel like I need to upgrade anything. Now, if the prices weren't insane right now I may look for a little more power but everything else is great. The A/C works well enough, the stereo sounds great, the performance is insane and with the AWD I like the additional comfort of not flying around a corner and making a mistake which we all know is possible with a 930.

In the end I do truly miss the 930 but couldn't afford both. If I could I would buy one today, or maybe try and by my old one back.. I loved that car. For now, the solution is a 993TT.

There's one more perspective.

Cheers,
Bryan

[cdill]

I have had the pleasure to drive many examples of both cars and even a couple different 993 Turbo S cars.

A stock 930 is a raw driving experience. the HVAC system is pointless, typically leaks oil from somewhere unless your really lucky, the suspension is simple and dated and the 4 speed transmission with out modification doesn't allow the car to really become dangerous until it comes up on boost (Dr. Jekyll Mr. Hyde type of deal at that point). It is easily modified with some simple bolt on parts or minimal intrusion (turbo, intercooler, cams, etc.) that allow it to make big power. The best part is that I'm even able to perform simple maintenance.

A Stock 993TT feels like your driving a couch down the road. Most of the ones I've driven have leather everywhere, not that there is much if any difference in the actual body, but the interior feels roomy in comparison, the HVAC works, it has all the power you could ever want right from the factory and with the AWD and its other fancy computer controlled devices even my grandmother could put down some impressive track times. I have only driven a modified 993TT one time. With bigger turbos, intercooler, and the 2wd conversion. Looking back it felt like a modified 930 that could go on a diet and just like the 930 you better be on your A game when behind the wheel!

[16Volt]

The 993TT is a halo car for me, funds allowing I probably would have went that route instead of the 930. After riding in a 993TT recently though....I would have been disappointed. Its a blisteringly fast car, make no mistake, but I left the experience.....bored.

[Shadetree930]

Originally Posted by 16Volt

Its a blisteringly fast car, make no mistake, but I left the experience.....bored.

And there you have it. The newer cars are FAST.

I rather enjoyed the sound and fury of a 3.3 working up a head of steam. In the newer cars, flick the accelerator and boom you are well into triple digits before your first sip of triple skinny mocha latte.

[puddy]

Originally Posted by 16Volt

The 993TT is a halo car for me, funds allowing I probably would have went that route instead of the 930. After riding in a 993TT recently though....I would have been disappointed. Its a blisteringly fast car, make no mistake, but I left the experience.....bored.

Thanks for this info, if my ship comes in and I have $250k to spend on a car i'll think twice about the 993tt, maybe a real 965t instead.

[lee88]

I am fortunate to own both a '77 930 (blue on the left) and a '96 993TT (silver on the right), have had both for several years. Both cars are mostly stock with a couple bolt-on upgrades. The 930 engine was rebuilt with K27, headers + muffler, factory AC compressor upgraded to Keuhl, etc. The 993TT has PSS10s, 3 spoke steering wheel in place of original 4 spoke, and Fabspeed exhaust tips (bypasses the secondary muffler) but is a bit closer to stock than the 930.

The other feedback here is pretty spot on. The 930 is raw, especially the early 3.0L cars like my '77. Lots of turbo lag, truck-like 4 speed, no power steering or hydraulic clutch assist, etc. For that I love it. It's a brutal sensation that keeps me on my toes when driving the 930 on twisty roads, but I've also driven it 250+ miles in a day and it can work as high speed grand tourer. Brings a huge smile to my face every time I get behind the wheel.

The 993TT is blindingly quick. No meaningful lag with the sequential twin turbos (and more displacement), confidence inspiring AWD, and arguably the Big Reds are some of the best brakes on any 911 in the 50+ year history. A stock 993TT will easily outpace all but the most outrageously modded 930s in a straight line, and will beat every 930 (short of full race build or 935 clone) stopping or going round corners. Drives like a modern car despite being nearly 20 years old. Certainly easier to drive, safer, and more comfortable thanks to power assisted everything, ABS, airbag, better HVAC, etc. Brings a huge smile to my face every time I get the wheel.

I know there are plenty of folks who use their 930s as daily drivers. But I personally would probably tire eventually if I drove the 930 every day, and it's not just a vintage vs modern thing. My '73 CIS or my '74 MFI Carrera are both more livable day to day than my 930 just because they're easier and more predictable at everything from shifting to steering to accelerating. The 993TT would be very easy to have as a daily driver.

The 930 is easier/cheaper to modify and get significant improvements from. Every system from the torsion bars to turbos to exhaust to brakes to interior stuff can be improved meaningfully. There's a reason the 993TT is the final evolution of the air-cooled 911... yes you can go more aggressive on turbos, exhaust, etc but the gains to be had aren't that significant and are pretty expensive to get there. Other than suspension or aesthetic stuff like wheels or interior, vast majority 993TT owners don't really modify that much.

In terms of maintenance, I would say that the 930 is certainly simpler and easier to do basic stuff on DIY. I don't think the basic maintenance costs are dramatically higher on the 993TT for stuff like oil changes, brake pads/fluid, etc. It's only when there's really significant or catastrophic repairs that the 993TT maintenance costs become double or triple the 930. Also the 993TT is a substantially more complicated car in terms of systems obviously, so there's more stuff that could break and electronically controlled stuff tends to be pricier than basic mechanical stuff.

I love both cars and am fortunate to be able to own, drive, and maintain them and the other stuff in the garage. If I was forced to sell one of the two but still keep all my other cars, I would probably sell the 993TT. The 993TT is a better car all around, but for me at least the 930 is unique in terms of the experience I get from it (raw, vintage, crazy in a good way) whereas a lot of the enjoyment I get from my 993TT I could get from a newer water cooled Porsche. If I could only own one Porsche and use it for everything I'd probably keep the 993TT.

[quattrorunner]

I think I had a poster on my wall that looked familiar to that as a kid. Said something like "he who has the most toys wins". YOU WIN

[Alan L]

nice summary Lee88.
How lucky we are to at least be able to experience at least one of these cars, and share the other experiences others have.
Alan

[x98boardwell]

Alan, well said!

[lee88]

Originally Posted by Alan L

How lucky we are to at least be able to experience at least one of these cars, and share the other experiences others have.

Thanks, I couldn't agree more Alan...

[Alan L]

Originally Posted by lee88

Thanks, I couldn't agree more Alan...

Your garage says it all.
But thanks for taking the time to write the informative post.
Alan

[Janusz1]

Thanks for all the answers.
I am totally enamored with my '78 930 (bought 3 yrs ago, nicely modified), but the nagging thought "what if there is even better fun car for me there" was bothering me for some time.
I am not young anymore and there is no time to move slowly towards perfection.
Your answers saved me a lot of money; no 993 for me needed.

[JacobS911]

Originally Posted by Janusz1

"what if there is even better fun car for me there"

Maybe go drive one..if you haven't already, but it sounds like you haven't

Your opinion is the one that only matters on this one

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by Janusz1

How these two compare?
lets take 1978/1979 nicely modified 930 and compare it with say 1997 993 Turbo.




Just curious

The cure when I had that dilemma after driving later turbos was when I found this. A 930 with vintage Mode 935 suspension, 1997 993 twin turbo @ 500HP with pump gas . Curb weight is around 600 lbs less, with most creature comforts. So lighter and faster, still with the old 930 feel. For me, problem solved.

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by Janusz1

I am not young anymore and there is no time to move slowly towards perfection.

Me too. It's a nice mix of what I liked about both a 930 and a 993 TT.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by Janusz1

Thanks for all the answers.
I am totally enamored with my '78 930 (bought 3 yrs ago, nicely modified), but the nagging thought "what if there is even better fun car for me there" was bothering me for some time.
I am not young anymore and there is no time to move slowly towards perfection.
Your answers saved me a lot of money; no 993 for me needed.

I loved the 993tt I drove, and my buddy has offered to sell it to me multiple times (shoulda sold a kidney and pulled the trigger when it was down to $80K, huh?), but I don't have the funds for one. An alternative is a 996tt, which is of similar performance but much, much cheaper. I'm kinda peripherally looking for one, if I happen to stumble onto a good opportunity. They're pretty much at the bottom of their depreciation curvve IMO, so if I don't like the car it could be sold for about the same as its purchase price.