What is the big deal? If Hagerty values the car at $1 million dollars tomorrow how does that hurt us? If it was a negative I can understand the negative comments but it's a positive problem to have. Hagerty(like others) offers AGREED VALUE ! You don't have to insure for top dollar...just what you feel comfortable with. This works very well for most of us who have spent a small fortune on ours cars. Holy beejezus...who give a rats manure as long as the values keep going up. If Hagerty was saying that the best 930 is worth $25k...then and only then should we be concerned...otherwise..let it go!

>>>facepalm<<<

Brian hit the nail on the head - here we go again. Jeesh.

Especially ^this utter rubbish being spewed above here^ from Mr. Changes His Screen Name for ??? reason (not you Rey / Ronknees).

PAINFUL

and, it has surprisingly not yet been pointed out - *this convo belongs in the _M_A_R_K_E_T_P_L_A_C_E_ section of the forums*

Rey, I can only speak for myself, butt I don't think anyone is saying Hagerty's ridiculous value scale hurts us, butt that it is deserving of derision considering the scale is absurd and not based on reality.

My only question when starting this thread is how Haggerty's values have gotten completely out of whack...

Not arguing our cars are great...

Or that they are worth 100k-ish.

Or that we shouldn't under insure them...

But Haggerty says a driver is $180k... and a parts car is $130k...

And there is just NO WAY that comes close to reality. Its not like they are 5-10% off... they are 100% off... at least for a 1987 car...

There are plenty of 930 on here for less than 100k... and I don't think they sold. If they are worth 180k as a driver, they should have been gone in a heart beat...

So, I pose the question again... what is Haggerty smoking?

My car is a driver... But I could probably get it close to a #2 car with some slight body work/a repaint/some original bumpers/etc... Should be easily doable with a topnotch paint job for $15,000... Does that then make my car worth $230k?

I would LOOOVEEE for my car to be worth $230k...

The absurdity is happening across all brands. Ferrari is probably king of absurdity when it comes to values. Are they really worth their asking price? As of late I'm getting a lot more interested in an Alfa GTV stepnose and their values as of late have been ridiculous. E30 M3 prices are ridiculous. Now I say the prices are absurd because those are the cars on my bucket list. Truth is I may be wrong, the prices are what they are...and I need to accept that.

Usually reality and insurance don't go hand in hand. The Classic car insurance companies beat to their own drums, so it's not surprising to see high valuations. Example: I called my insurance company to find out the top coverage on a 67 Alfa Stepnose...they said as long as I prove what I paid for it, they would insure me for the amount paid...even if it exceeds their posted limit.

so the early intercooler cars were more explosive than the tamer 86-88 cars? well my father owned a 76 930...I drove it plenty. I had a 78 turbo for 6 years...I drove it plenty as well. I have had my 87 for 13 years and it was always stronger in every way than the 76 and 78 fact. my tame 87 lol...

sorry for the distraction as this is a haggerty valuation thread. had to protect the honor of the lowly 87 turbo compared to the Rambo early cars:)

after years of racing cars and motorcycles in scca, imsa, wera, ccs and ama...I can defend my assessment of whether one car is quicker than another:)

Yes, the market for the 930 has changed over the last short amount of time.

I would prefer to be over insured as to under insured

The actual value to any car is whatever somebody will shell out

THREE TRUTHS, just my .02

When its all said and done, they sure rock on many levels. I am not sure if I like the way our turbocab looks, or sounds or drives the best??

Happy Holidays to all

I am relatively new to these discussions. Seems like the the bid ask is wider than the Haggerty Values represent....but there has to be a basis for thier valuations. I don't think it's an attempt to arbitrage 930 preimiuns...that will not move the needle for them- someone else pointed out that they would overstate values across the board if that was thier MO...to at least do it with a more popular brand?

Until reading this thread- I was putting more credibility into EBAY as a proxy for the value..but will discount that as the 'market' moving forward. Perhaps there are 'flipper' and cars of 'questionable pedigree'" on EBAY and the poor results of the auctions are on account of the vehicles represented?

I bought mine unaware with an objective to enjoy it and bring it back to its glory after a few decades of neglect. The more I own it the more I am getting into the restoration. Unfortunately - if the "suspect " values are remotely attainable...I might have to whack the bid because I need a driver car. My History has proven that cars are a consumable when I get my hands on them....not an appreciating asset!

Hopeful??

FWIW- 78 930 went for 130K at Mecum / Kissimee ( programmed aired yesterday - not sure when auction was held).

So jelly. Especially the BB.

Don't understand why some people are angry over being overvalued.

Nothing wrong with using eBay to determine values, at least as far as asking prices. There are many reputable dealers selling 930s on there at any particular moment. And I'm knowledgeable enough about these cars to make a pretty good assessment based on photos and description.

The take away? Hagerty's values are a pipe dream. Not even a question. There are some VERY nice 930s being offered in the marketplace right now in the low- to mid-$100Ks. I mean very nice cars with sub-30K miles.

I don't think anyone is getting angry about being over valued here. I think some are scratching their heads on where Hagerty is getting their numbers from to justify the rise in valuations. Guessing they're using actual data though from sales.. maybe :D

It is legitimate to be angry about being incorrectly valued. I'd hate to be the poor sap who swallows this $hit and pays $100K for a driver 930 only to find if he has to sell it that he cannot recoup his "investment".

Agreed. I was looking at it from a current owners point of view rather than someone looking to buy or just made a very recent purchase.

People overpay things in life, I've done it, too. It happens.

Just had my 87 appraised last month by an appraiser that is used by my insurance co. A few here know my car and the shape it is in. All original paint(paint metered by appraiser) all performance bolt on's and a g50 trans. When all said and done it came back at $90k from the appraiser.

I read a bunch of books on MMA and know some guys that fight MMA.... So now I think I am ready for the Octagon.... :rolleyes:

^^^ This, and also how members here list 930s in the Pelican "for sale" forum for "high" prices (much less high than the Haggerty guidelines which are definitely the result of being high) and they do not sell (like other posters in this thread have mentioned).

I disagree that no solid info can be gleaned from eBay - maybe just not info that supports Haggerty's claims?

Someone lists a 930 on eBay (regular Joe dude or dealer) for a high price and it runs for weeks/months/years and remains unsold - that is useful information.

Not sure about the "behind the scenes" distortion, but one thing that probably has contributed to the values stupidity is the fact that some oddball 930 examples have sold for big money (aka - ones that have been parked in garages under car covers since new, and ones that have seats filled with the farts of famous previous owners - that gets some folks all wooded up and ready to pay more). I guess if a few have sold for $300K plus then that means all examples are affected by the oddballs - is that how some insurance companies think? Seems really dumb, if so.



Good thing you clarified that, Paul, as I was preparing to female-dog-slap you, again!!! :D

Ha ha! No doubt! :)

Many ways to look at it. If a buyer pays $100k today and wants to sell tomorrow ...he or she may take a bath. If he or she sells 5 years from now...they may do well on their "investment". Truth is no one really knows. Color, options and condition vary from car to car. When one finds the "right" one for them. They may have to pony up the coin today. It's not like one can just run to another dealer or private seller and find the exact car that matches their previous want. Some buyers are not flexible. They want what they want. The days of the excellent $35k 930 are gone for now, may not ever return. It is what it is. Most never really pay too much...just too early;)

Careful about values from Hagerty.
In you read the condition they refer to, there will be hardly any "1" in the market, even a "2" will be hard to find, some "3" may be around (they would be a "1" with the German condition descriptions) and a "4" would mostly be a driver ( but a good one). That is hier the Hagerty condition description appear to me.
Taking this into account, the prices become a bit more realistic.
For past 1977 models the values seem not to be realistic though.

In the financial times the 1974 to 1977 models just were called as blue-chip models. Like it or not this is likely to boost those models on the next price level....

Gesendet von meinem C6903 mit Tapatalk

Your car is exceptionally clean and looks new. I'd put it at the top of the chart, but then what do I know? Perhaps the mods hold the appraisal down? For sure modded 930s represent the best "value" in the market today. If I were shopping for a 930, I'd buy a modded car. I'd never pay up for a stocker, but then I don't "invest" in or "collect" cars...I like to drive them a lot and hard.

What you all may find interesting is that the valuation conversation seems to permeate almost all Porsches these days. I'm visiting the 997 turbo forum on RL these days (more active then Pelican on those models) and it seems like a large number of threads discuss value, 997.1 turbos as future collectibles due to being the last of the mezger engined, and manual trans turbos, etc.

Probably the safest haven from this mindset is to be among brand new 991 Porsche buyers who plan on extracting value from their cars through driving experiences. Unless it's a "special" model, I can't imagine anyone rolling off the lot in their new 130k 911 thinking that it's going to do anything but depreciate...so they drive them all the time, confident that when it comes time to sell the car will be worth substantially less than they paid for it.

There's a '86 turbo on BAT worth watching. Has a few mods.

Thanks I thought the same. But it is what it is. They are the "experts" I'm not sellin so it doesn't matter the only thing I wanted it for is if something happened to mine I would have enough $ to replace it if necessary.

I agree with your explanation about the value categories, but no matter how you look at it, the Hagerty values are not even close to realistic.

And then the McQueen 76 930 got $2M at auction...

A (small) problem with these crazy valuations is that now everytime I drive the car, some shady looking guy is trying to buy the it. Often while we're in traffic. :rolleyes:

zork tube solves this problem

This happened to a lesser extent in the late 80's. 930's that had been low 20's were going for mid to high 40's. Same with 325 F cars. One could pick them up mid to low 20's all day long. And the poof it was over. Only in the last couple years has it gotten weird again. I do know about a month ago we had 12 tornadoes touch down in our county. Three at one time. As my wife and I were crawling under our pier and beam floor for the first time in 20 years I was telling my wife I should have paid for Hagerty insurance for the P-cars. It was that sketchy.

Actually I look at this bubble as amusing. I'm not selling unless some dumb ass hands me 250k which probably will never happen��

That's simply because someone wanted a Turbo that McQueen had rubbed his buttcheeks all over and doesn't indicate much of anything about the market values of these cars.

I think it still does. Steve's Buick or other lesser cars sure didn't bring that kind of money. 930 did pull the weight of its own.

not unlike steve's lusso bringing $1.4MM when the market for a "run of the mill" lusso was $550k.

mike regalia knew what he was doing when he bought steve's 930 for what many thought was stupid money a few years back. the 930 still stands tall in the market place whether it was icon owned or just a great "run of the mill" example. just an observation guys.

I went to the Hagerty valuation site, it is new and has some significant changes.
The new site has a very disconcerting tool, an ability to transpose gold or the DJIA, etc., over your car value graph!
This is truly a sign to me that the wrong crowd or reasons are also buying these cars.
End users and what they will pay are the true value of a car and the rest are speculators that will dump them as soon as the 'wind of economics' shift.
So yeah, I expect some changes in the classic car market when the investors get out and move to something different.

Didn't see that...

Perhaps thats why the info is so inflated...

930's at $300k is a bubble... At $100k, it probably about where it should be...

When these cars were $30k, that was just stupid...

According to what?

Wrong forum??? :-).....I hate seeing these threads....I just want to drive mine and forget about the values.

I agree 100%. Totally nauseating.

Then read another thread which better suits your preferences.

The rising popularity, -public awareness and following gain in market value is the definitively most significant thing about the 930 at the moment..........IMHO of course.

It would be a strange "Porsche 911 Turbo forum" if this topic was left untouched because some people like to get offended by the concept of monetary value and any debating of that topic.

I have noticed a tendency of a "holy few" to gun down these threads whenever they appear.
To me, it looks like teenage bullying and displays extremely poor style.

Don't forget the Asian marked opening soon, that will result in higher prices for iconic classic cars... A lot of potential buyers in China if you ask me.

Although I'm 53 I will admit to having the sense of humor of a teenager but, HTF is voicing my opinion "teenage bullying" ? Or bullying of any sort ???
If people are interested in "following gain in public market value" there's a forum specifically for that.
I'm glad your noticing a tendency of the people here gunning down these threads whenever they appear. They don't belong here.
However, we're not the "holy few". The vast majority of folks who participate here on a regular basis are more interested in how we can enhance our cars not how much there appreciating. Like it or not this aint a q-tip crowd. I'll always voice my opinion on the subject because I'd like to see this forum stay focused on mods instead of dollars.

not exactly sure how pointing out that THERE IS A SPECIFIC FORUM SECTION DEVOTED TO THIS TOPIC Porsche Marketplace Discussion - Pelican Parts Technical BBS is considered "bullying" whatsoever, nor how there are any "holy few"?

confuzored. :confused:

things that make ya go hmmmmmm...