An additional 911SC conversion
 

Hello!

I will be adding to the many 911SC 3.0 turbo builds here on pelican over the next few weeks. I have been wanting to turbocharge a NA car for quite awhile, and I have decided that now is the time.

I plan to order nearly everything at once to reduce the time spent waiting around for parts to arrive. My Bitz Megasquirt kit should arrive in just a few days so my first update will be during install.

- I need some information cleared up before I begin ordering parts. WTH is the compression ratio on a US spec 1980 3.0SC. I have read many different figures from many different sources. Is the below information correct?

1978-1979 911 SC (european)
2994 cc
180 bhp @ 5500 rpm
265 NM @ 4200 rpm
compression: 8,5:1

1978-1979 911 SC (US)
2994 cc
180 bhp @ 5500 rpm
237 NM @ 4200 rpm
compression: 8,5:1


1980 911 SC (european)
2994 cc
180 bhp @ 5500 rpm
265 NM @ 4200 rpm
compression: 8,6:1

1980-1983 911 SC (US)
2994 cc
180 bhp @ 5500 rpm
244 NM @ 4200 rpm
compression: 8,5:1


1981-1983 911 SC (european)
2994 cc
204 bhp @ 5900 rpm
267 NM @ 4300 rpm
compression: 9,8:1

-- If this is the case, I can assume a CR of 8.5 which means that my intercooler won't need to be completely obnoxious and I can roll with a .5bar spring. If I could safely make 300bhp my thirst for forced induction will be satisfied.

If you go with a TIAL wastegate, they are correct in saying that aftermarket headers will produce greater results (pressures) from their springs.

i.e. their .5 bar spring (7.25psi) will actually produce or peak around 9-10psi, or about .7 bar.

I'd suggest starting at a .3 bar spring, tune and go from there.

What injector size are you starting with?

You'll have your hands full for a bit until you get the MS tuned and smoothed out. While very good, the MAP Tony includes will be for an N/A engine.

Got some bad news from the shop today. Mechanic discovered two broken headstuds....

-- I was wondering if I have an opportunity to make the best out of a crappy situation. If I am going to spend a ton of money getting the studs replaced, do I have any options as far as lower compression pistons and other internal parts go?

What can I do while the motor is being taken apart to make my 3.0 more accepting of Boost?

* Kyle, I will be going with 44lb injectors.

What is the engine type stamped on the case? This will confirm what would be stock compression.

If you are tearing down then just replace the pistons with the early 8.5:1. Just make sure to match the diameter and height groups. Best to install matched set if you can find them.

Otherwise, you can get JE's assuming you have Nikasil cylinders. If you have Alusil they should be plated or replaced to run the JEs.

I would also replace the cams.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1464216985.jpg

Fell right out when the first valve cover was pulled off.

So I guess this build is going to begin with a motor tear down. Are there any piston/cylinder kits that will bring CR below 8? Money is not really an issue here, I want to do things right.

I'd stick with 8.5:1 and just get a really good intercooler.

If you look in the Engine Rebuilding forum for Henry of Supertech, he probably has piston/cylinder kits in stock for just about any compression ratio you want. He also makes head studs that are considered most excellent (though I don't have any personal experience with them - have Raceware studs in my engine - bought and installed back in 2006 or so, before I had even heard of the Pelican forums - no problems with them).

I would not use 8.5:1 as I prefer the power characteristics of low static compression with higher boost (more room for tuning error that way, too), so it really comes down to what you want with your engine.

JE also will make pistons in about any size & compression ration that you want.

Oh ya', forgot to mention that JustTheTIPpy, that posted directly above me, has a lot of experience with Megasquirt EFI tuning, so I am volunteering his South TexAss tuning assistance if you are in need at some point!!! :)

These car certainly favor those with access to cash... check out this suspension bill! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1464233733.png

Yeah, they're similar to a BOAT, Break Out Another Thou

I'm still working on locating low compression Pistons. I've found a set of 95mm, 3.0 turbo Pistons with a 7.0CR.

I know you can't use the Pistons out of a 3.2 turbo, but would the 3.0 turbo Pistons work?

Giving me too much credit :)

If you plan on never exceeding say, 0.7 or 0.8 bar, and never seriously tracking the car, I'd stick with 8.5:1 CR.

Off boost would be so much better.

If plan on greater than 1 bar and heavy track use, <8:1 CR would be safer.

Off boost torque will suffer.

Others can disagree, but that's my thoughts.

JE will make you any pistons you want for $1k.

Getting customs Pistons ordered through LN Engineering.

I'm using 95mm Mahl 930 cylinders. I'm thinking of going 8.0CR for the Pistons.

My SC engine is at 9.5:1 and it is handling the boost quite well. 8:1 is probably a great choice though. If I ever rebuild my engine, I will go 8:1 and run gobs of boost

I've heard a lot of bad things about JE Pistons in Mahl cylinders.

Should I be concerned?

Regardless of the lack of posting. A fair amount of progress has been made.

- Engine was dropped
- Stripped down to short block
- Head studs removed
- Heads sent off to be re-surfaced and ported
- Pistons being ordered from JE

..... You can watch all the progress on Youtube if you'd like starting here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIMnVMoJwYc

It's been a long time! I nearly forgot about this thread but I'm going to need some feedback and help soon so its a good time to drop an update!

Here's what happened:

--------------
Complete rebuild... extremely thorough.

New head studs
New timing chains
930 oil pump
964 gt3 main bearing shells
996 gt3 connecting rod bearing shells
Intermediate shaft bearings
Rod bushings
ARP rod bolts
Rebuilt and ported heads
JE pistons with custom compression at 8:1
Lightly honed stock cylinders (had the hone-able Mahl ones)
-------------

At this point the long block is complete and I'm beginning to set up the EFI/ Turbo bits. Going to be installing Bitz Megasquirt kit tomorrow.

We put a tractor turbo on it. It's a Holset hx35 from a farm tractor. Seems to fit great. I'll be posting soon with some questions but it's not long now.


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The HX35 is a great, solid turbo. They're made for higher boost, so it probably won't wake up until a bar or more of boost.

Great to hear you built a solid foundation. Enjoy the new found power.

I've been following you're Porsche build on the you tube. It's been kinda funny. You're definitely learning as you go which is cool, come to us with questions is all I'm going to say...

BTW I think boost coming on later than earlier might be a good thing with this build at least till the transmission is upgraded.

YES! Absolutely. later and softer hit will save the transmission. Worst thing for a 915 is torque shock.

With the extra gear you will almost always be in boost with a little gear shift action. It's a fantastic combination if built correctly.

I may be overlooking it, but what channel/username?

They are "Team Boosted" on YouTube

Hey guys! Quick question:

My distributor has seen better days, the rebuild services are pricey and new examples are over a thousand bucks. I have Bitz Racing EFI kit that is being installed, its Megasquirt V3.0 hardware and software. I have and am familiar with the full version of TunerStudio.

How hard is the Ford EDIS system to install on these engines? I would need a new map for MS because the Bitz stock one is for a naturally aspirated motor with the stock ignition system.

What exactly is wrong with the distributor? I went to a guy here in Anaheim that rebuilt mine for under $100, I ordered the bushings and whatnot from PartsKlassic. All in, it was around $110 for a complete rebuild.

If you want to add EDIS, you will need to add a crank trigger off the front pulley.

Call clewett or Turbokraft for a datributorless solution. I am going coil on plug unsure if your efi would support that. But the parts are available from both clewett and I believe Turbokraft.

It is extremely easy to go with EDIS with megasquirt. The EDIS stuff is dirt cheap at a local auto dismantler. Donor vehicle is late 90s Ford Ranger, or explorer. Plug wires from a late 90 Ford Crown Victoria work well too. You will need a toothed wheel/crank pulley, and VR sensor. i got mine from Blank. I DID have an issue with my first crank pulley cracking in half, but i saw they have a new version now. It is fairly reliable. I was also able do do a coil on plug set up using 2 edis modules, and coils from a Honda CBR motorcycle. Obviously, Turbokraft, or Clewitt have what you need also, but my setup cost pennies on the dollar compared to those guys(No disrespect intended)
BTW, i started with the BITZ megasquirt set up, but when i went turbocharged i ended up ditching the BITZ ecu for a Microsquirt, it is quite a bit more advanced than the megasquirt 1 and you have much more control, not to mention the ability to run spark also. The BITZ is pretty much maxed out right out of the box without upgrading.

Tony sells a great kit (Bitz racing) but his ECU is not configured for ignition control. EDIS is very easy to add to Megasquirt, the parts are cheap and there are many examples of 911/930s running with this setup.

Just get the component parts, solder them in and configure the ignition. You will have to MAP the ignition in the car. Since you are mapping fuel for the turbo this is done at the same time.

I believe Bitz has upgraded the hardware they give you. The box says Megasquirt V3.0, which I'm assuming is more advanced than the MS1 the kit originally shipped with. I'm going to shoot you a message, your build seems similar to mine.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1513366439.jpg

Just did some more reading. It looks like its MS1 v3.0... So no ignition control? Would I have to upgrade to MS2 or microsquirt to run EDIS?

- I am going to the junkyard to grab all the EDIS stuff regardless. It's dirt cheap, I'm getting mine from a Ford Aerostar.

Haha, I stumbled across you guys on YT. Have you sorted the engine tin issue? Get some that accommodates the turbo.

Tippy offers great advice.

Good luck

Hill,

Megasquirt V3.0 is the circuit board version, which has the individual components soldered. The V3.57 board is the surface mount version. The Blitz kit still has a MS1 processor. It can easily upgraded to a MS2 processor for more functions. And if you want to go full bore the V3.0 board can be upgraded to a MS3 processor where the MS3X card can also be added, but the MS3 will require a larger case enclosure and the MS3X will require an additional 37 pin cable. With MS3 you can add the MS knock card to monitor engine knock.

That’s insane! Why not buy one that works?
Will they take it back so you could maybe do something that will have everything already? Maybe eBay that *****. Don’t you have enough to contend with? KISS makes less headaches. However if you can make the edis work separately I guess that’s cool. But since you’re there already why not make the jump to something(aem, electromotive, many others) that are out of the box ready. I got a kit with everything pretty reasonably.

Hey guys -- Update!

Engine tin is complete and we're ready to test fit everything in the car. We're pretty sure the turbo has enough room but better safe than sorry.

I picked up EDIS6 and the coil pack from the Junkyard yesterday. I can't say for certain that we will go this route, but it's nice to have the parts in case we do. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of distributorless ignition. I figure I could sell my dizzy and that would pay for the MS upgrade and extras I may need.

I will be needing some help with a base map from a similar car running EDIS and Megasquirt to get started. If anybody can refer me to people who can help with that, I'd appreciate it! Regardless, I'll be chipping away at this build at least 3 times a week.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1513456793.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1513456793.jpg

Don't forget to make a bracket to support that monster! The weight of that turbo will fatigue the metal over time and bad things could happen. Do it now before you get the engine back in the car to make your life easier.

Some pictures for inspiration:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1513617946.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1513617978.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1513618097.jpg

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I'm still trying to figure out why the EDIS modules?

Is it something about COP versus CNP? With a 3-wire COP and providing the +12v separately, just logic from the MS3 can't you use COP directly?

I've been reading lots about using my microsquirt v3 for ignition and its pretty confusing, but it seems I can run wasted spark CNP directly at least, without EDIS.

I'm not sure why you'd go anything but distributorless. When I rebuilt the engine in my 930 I decided early on that I wasn't willing to gamble the life of a very expensive engine by trusting rubber vacuum lines and mechanical weights to pull out timing on boost.

_

It is/was the easiest to configure and dead reliable back in MS's infancy plus dirt cheap.

Once you get it sorted with EDIS, jumping to COP or CNP provides better fire power and aesthetically pleasing installation.